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Lothian Group discussion (Lothian City, Lothian Country Bus and East Coast Buses)

VioletEclipse

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The closure of local ADL sites might influence what Lothian get for their next major order after the BZLs. Not that going for integral ADL buses (the only ADL stuff currently available) is that likely, but there aren't all to many options currently available.
 
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CSB0241

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The closure of local ADL sites might influence what Lothian get for their next major order after the BZLs. Not that going for integral ADL buses (the only ADL stuff currently available) is that likely, but there aren't all to many options currently available.
Weren’t most of the Gemini 3s/Eclipse 3s/Streetairs manufactured in Ballymena? If so, I do doubt getting buses up from Scarborough to Edinburgh isn’t anything particularly challenging, especially since the BZLs came all the way up from Derby if I’m not mistaken.

I think there is a non-zero chance of Yutong‘s being the next order
Is this you saying it’s highly likely or highly unlikely?
 

Blindtraveler

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Still can't envisage Lothian going for a large order of ADL integral vehicles. Be they diesel or electric. I could envisage a scenario where they take some diesel e400 for airlink which they can then sell when they are less than midlife and the electric market offers something a little more suitable for the airport work, but this would be a dozen buses at most,
 

Leedsbusman

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The closure of local ADL sites might influence what Lothian get for their next major order after the BZLs. Not that going for integral ADL buses (the only ADL stuff currently available) is that likely, but there aren't all to many options currently available.
So because ADL don’t build in Scotland they will chose buses from Northern Island or China instead?
 
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Weren’t most of the Gemini 3s/Eclipse 3s/Streetairs manufactured in Ballymena? If so, I do doubt getting buses up from Scarborough to Edinburgh isn’t anything particularly challenging, especially since the BZLs came all the way up from Derby if I’m not mistaken.


Is this you saying it’s highly likely or highly unlikely?
MCVs are built in Egypt so there's that as well
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Weren’t most of the Gemini 3s/Eclipse 3s/Streetairs manufactured in Ballymena? If so, I do doubt getting buses up from Scarborough to Edinburgh isn’t anything particularly challenging, especially since the BZLs came all the way up from Derby if I’m not mistaken.
In any case Lothian are not switching to ADL so this speculation isn’t exactly beneficial to the subject matter.
 

Blindtraveler

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That's quite a confident pronouncement, unless you have inside info. I would say it's an open book at the moment given the less than successful introduction of the bzl and the fact that there's going to have to probably be some kind of change going forward, at least if nothing else for new airport fleet
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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That's quite a confident pronouncement, unless you have inside info. I would say it's an open book at the moment given the less than successful introduction of the bzl and the fact that there's going to have to probably be some kind of change going forward, at least if nothing else for new airport fleet
That’s true, but it still doesn’t justify a reason to switch to ADL.

Lothian have been with Volvo for decades now. Everything is set up to work around Volvo products. There’s potential for the odd niche batch of vehicles in this era, but in terms of switching the whole fleet? I doubt it will ever happen. It’s more likely in my view that Michael O’Leary switches the entire Ryanair fleet from Boeing’s to Airbus’ than it is Lothian switching away from Volvo. Ryanair of course have never ultimately switched.

A switch away nearly happened in the Renilson era with all the Tridents and Darts that were procured, but when TransBus went bust where did Lothian go? Straight back to Volvo. Lothian I believe got a ridiculous price on those at the time so that’s why they went with them, no other reason.

They did opt for NewPower conversions for the tour buses but that was ultimately down to cost and the fact the range offered did more than good enough for the tours. There were suggestions of further conversions after this, but I can’t see it being that likely now as come 2027 and there will likely be still a handful of diesel tours remaining by then. The process of conversion is not a quick one and so far none have re-entered service either. By then you’re looking at almost a third of the city fleet being electric, if not more.

You could argue perhaps Volvo do take the likes of Lothian for granted, but for Lothian to switch to another supplier fully? It would never make sense. The current issues are MCV specific and not necessarily Volvo issues. The only part you could say that is Volvos issue is the fact they have contracted the bodies to MCV. There’s been orders far beyond what MCV can handle and MCV continues to body the majority of Volvo’s diesel bus chassis’ as well. In time it should ease off. The batch of 48 should hopefully have less issues.

The only offering at the moment that makes sense for a non Volvo product would be for the Airlinks. As Volvo is yet to offer a viable product for Lothian’s needs in this regard. Now Lothian may opt to wait for such a product from Volvo to appear, but the XLB’s in Airlink terms are old now and need something to be done.
 

granitebuses

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The closure of local ADL sites might influence what Lothian get for their next major order after the BZLs. Not that going for integral ADL buses (the only ADL stuff currently available) is that likely, but there aren't all to many options currently available.
If they do go Eletric, I can see them getting a fleet of Electroliners which would be nice but that’s just a thought.
 

Blindtraveler

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I don't think anyone is suggesting a wholesale change of manufacturer for mass orders by any means, but it's widely acknowledged on here and elsewhere that the current airlink fleet are very much worn out and although I'm sure the vehicles would still have something to offer once given some fairly major TLC on City routes, they need something nearer replacing them for the airport work. I remain convinced that this will be diesel for one last time and with that in mind it doesn't leave any options really
 

stevenedin

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It will be interesting to see what happens. Hopefully they will have already placed an order for something as it can take a while to build buses. Maybe if they need something newer they could go to the second hand market for something suitable but I can't see that happening.

Are the XLBs not coping well enough with the routes? If they still are fine then maybe a refurbishment inside could help like standard seats rather than those big chunky uncomfortable ones that you can't see above and feel too big for the bus.
 

VioletEclipse

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What I was more meaning with my previous post, is that if Lothian were to go to ADL for the next order, then ADL having local factories might well play a part in the descision to go to them (short delivery times and local manufacturing have their benfits), and now that seems less likely to happen.


On a completely different note; does anyone happen to have a complete list of all the Atlanteans which were rebuilt to either coach spec or open top, and any names they carried.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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For those interested 727 debuted this morning with 451 moved to Seafield for prep and paint ahead of its transfer to Livingston. I would suggest 843’s days are probably numbered, if not 844.

721 (also at Central) may enter service as early as the evening peak.
 

stevenedin

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For those interested 727 debuted this morning with 451 moved to Seafield for prep and paint ahead of its transfer to Livingston. I would suggest 843’s days are probably numbered, if not 844.

721 (also at Central) may enter service as early as the evening peak.
Thanks for the update. Hopefully will see some more movements now. The ex Skylinks seem to be taking longer than I’d expected to move as well.
 

Blindtraveler

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Yes, hopefully a few more movements now indeed.
From what has been said on here, I think that mechanically the xlb for the air link at least are hammered and need lighter duties and probably a little bit of love and attention before going on to them, if my interpretation of this is wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Thanks for the update. Hopefully will see some more movements now. The ex Skylinks seem to be taking longer than I’d expected to move as well.
I think the biggest thing with these Skylinks is the interiors being redone. They’re getting stripped right back down with a most of the interior fittings removed and replaced/refurbished. The finished product would make you think they were never Skylink’s in the first place with virtually anything blue now being green. This includes ceiling panels and the panels at the windows.
Yes, hopefully a few more movements now indeed.
From what has been said on here, I think that mechanically the xlb for the air link at least are hammered and need lighter duties and probably a little bit of love and attention before going on to them, if my interpretation of this is wrong, I'm sure someone will point it out
I think it’s just that time where the Airlink’s naturally get replaced. Once they are moved to city and get the same work that 1126 and 1127 got a couple of years ago then I think they’ll be fine. I would be surprised if they move away from Central however. I would think it’s likely the 37 switches back to XLB usage.
 

FlybeDash8Q400

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Are MCV still bodying Volvo XLB's? I am sure I saw some being delivered down south.
19 eVoSeti bodied B8L’s have been built as 25 plates so far this year. There will be certainly be more built.

So yes, Lothian could absolutely order these for the Airlink. The body wouldn’t be an issue as it’s the same basis as the eVoRa, or rather the other way round.
 

Blindtraveler

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This, for me at least would make the most sense for airlink buses next fleet. No doubt in another 5 or 7 years time the market for vehicles will look different again even to what it does now and they may well be able to do something a bit different
 

ScotRail158725

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For those interested 727 debuted this morning with 451 moved to Seafield for prep and paint ahead of its transfer to Livingston. I would suggest 843’s days are probably numbered, if not 844.

721 (also at Central) may enter service as early as the evening peak.
is 464 moving west aswell?
 

ScotRail158725

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At the moment, it wouldn’t appear so. Assuming 451 does replace 843, then 453, 454 and 461 would allow for the last 3 buses to be replaced - 844, 850 and 936.

My thinking is 464-465 move later, but for now Marine bound maybe?
Makes sense right enough considering 905 and 906 see public service a lot these days

Noticed theres a couple long term VOR buses are any returning to service soon. 637 and 1045 been off ages now
 

Lothianbus703

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Makes sense right enough considering 905 and 906 see public service a lot these days

Noticed theres a couple long term VOR buses are any returning to service soon. 637 and 1045 been off ages now
Both 905/6 have recently been fit with assault screens so might continue to see service.
Neither are anything similar condition wise to most other 17 year old buses still in service in the UK that I have been on myself.
They are in brilliant condition with little to no rattles and not incredibly high mileage, there seems to be a high focus on these getting withdrawn on this forum.
 

NorthEastern

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Both 905/6 have recently been fit with assault screens so might continue to see service.
Neither are anything similar condition wise to most other 17 year old buses still in service in the UK that I have been on myself.
They are in brilliant condition with little to no rattles and not incredibly high mileage, there seems to be a high focus on these getting withdrawn on this forum.
Maybe some people on here are ageist
 

DunsBus

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:D Good one, its also a brilliant excuse to obsess over something!
Don't forget that in LRT days, 18-year-old Atlanteans were in daily service, and slightly more recently we had the F-reg coach-seated Olympians bowing out just a few months shy of their 20th birthday. :)
 

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