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Intercity services at Huntingdon

William3000

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I recall using Huntingdon station having some limited intercity services and I used them regularly in around 1994/95. My question is not so much why do they not bring them back but why Huntingdon had them in the first place? Particularly as the slightly larger town which does have platforms on the fast lines did not.

It seems to me that Peterborough makes an obvious location to change trains if heading further north and Huntingdon and St Neots have a decent half hourly service into central London and beyond into the South at Gatwick/Horsham.

Have any of the open access operators ever considered stopping or is there very limited demand? I wonder when East West Rail has a stop at Tempsford whether anything long distance will stop there - my expectation is that they won’t but the EWR consultation documents suggest consideration of long distance services stopping there.
 
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Dr Hoo

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Before electrification to Peterborough the stations between Hitchin and Peterborough had had a very poor and slow service dating back many years. Selective InterCity calls at Huntingdon helped to alleviate that situation.
 

mr_jrt

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Was the fact Huntingdon used to be an old junction station for lines to Cambridge and Kettering possibly a factor as well? The lines may have been long gone, but the historic calling patterns may have persisted much longer?
 

hexagon789

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Huntingdon used to have IC calls before Stevenage was rebuilt, then Stevenage tended to get them in preference.

Huntingdon still retained a few IC calls mostly at the fringes of the day until as you suggest, I think some point in the 1990s.

There was for a considerable time two morning up and two evening down HSTs just to/from Peterborough which effectively offered Peterborough/King's Cross semi-fast commuter runs - these were officially IC trains though and even had the buffet/kitchen staffed - these served Huntingdon but I believe not Stevenage, at least the morning Up runs didn't in 1986.
 

Thebaz

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I believe Huntingdon was rebuilt removing the island platform? There's an down fast-to-slow crossover just south of the station that could facilitate a call but not sure where the nearest up slow-to-fast is - possibly as far south as Biggleswade?
 

BranstonJnc

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Weren't a number of the Class 101 shuttles from Hitchin only operated to Huntingdon, because that was the limit of the NSE area (realistically) pre-electrification? Which is partially, from memory, why they then used to shunt the unit into the short bay platform (only good for 4 coaches?), and once the Intercity service stopped and let people off, the unit would then carry the connecting passengers all stations via Biggleswade?

In any event, a half-hourly service all-day from Huntingdon to Peterborough, along with the additional peak services to/from London which are quite fast, seem entirely reasonable. Huntingdon is quite a big place, as are St Neots and Biggleswade now, but I can't see much obvious reason for an Intercity stop.
 

mathstrains19

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I believe Huntingdon was rebuilt removing the island platform? There's an down fast-to-slow crossover just south of the station that could facilitate a call but not sure where the nearest up slow-to-fast is - possibly as far south as Biggleswade?
There's one just outside the station, with the next ones at St Neots, Sandy, then Arlesey
 

Bald Rick

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There were a number of Peterborough starters formed of HSTs in the 80s prior to the wires making it to Peterborough in around 1987/8. These were formed of HSTs running empty from Bounds Green that were to form the mid morning departures from KX before the first up trains from further afield made it south. Useful extra runs in otherwise dead time for the stock, a d helped developed the Peterborough / Huntingdon commuter market for when electrification was completed.
 

Magdalia

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I recall using Huntingdon station having some limited intercity services and I used them regularly in around 1994/95. My question is not so much why do they not bring them back but why Huntingdon had them in the first place?
There is a lot of confusion here.

Significant numbers of long distance trains calling at Huntingdon was a diesel era thing.

In the days of steam the service to intermediate stations between Hitchin and Peterborough was part of the ECML service not the suburban service. Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy and Biggleswade were little market towns with a sparse service of loco hauled trains to/from Kings Cross, and usually referred to as parliamentary services, or parlies. Arlesey had closed in 1959. The trains were mostly steam hauled right up to the closure of Top Shed in 1963.

Was the fact Huntingdon used to be an old junction station for lines to Cambridge and Kettering possibly a factor as well? The lines may have been long gone, but the historic calling patterns may have persisted much longer?
No, St Ives-Kettering closed in 1959, and had its own station Huntingdon East, though it was almost adjacent to Huntingdon North. The Kettering-Cambridge service was 3 trains per day.

Things began to change in the 1960s. St Neots had the Longsands and Cromwell Road estates, Huntingdon had Oxmoor. Various services had gone over to DMU when steam finished but it was only in 1967 that this became a 1tp2h service Hitchin-Huntingdon, with ECML Inter City sweeper services calling at Huntingdon to provide connections for Peterborough. There were sill a few loco hauled through trains Peterborough to/from Kings Cross, mostly at peak times, and still referred to as the Peterborough parlies.

Huntingdon used to have IC calls before Stevenage was rebuilt, then Stevenage tended to get them in preference.
The new station at Stevenage opened in 1973. The Inter City calls there replaced calls at Hitchin, not Huntingdon.

I believe Huntingdon was rebuilt removing the island platform?

There were various other ECML upgrades in the 1970s. Bottlenecks at Arlesey, Sandy and Huntingdon were removed, and a big realignment at Offord to increase speeds. It was as a result of putting 4 tracks through Sandy and Huntingdon that they lost their platforms on the fast lines. New fast/slow line crossovers were installed but these were 40 mph. It all happened a bit too early to get 70 mph turnouts.

Weren't a number of the Class 101 shuttles from Hitchin only operated to Huntingdon, because that was the limit of the NSE area (realistically) pre-electrification?

The next big event was the introduction of electric trains to Royston in 1978. The Hitchin-Huntingdon shuttle increased to hourly, connecting with the fast Royston trains, and got refurbished Met Cam DMUS, which were based at Cambridge and also worked the Royston shuttle. There was sufficient gaps in the ECML service for the DMUs to shunt across from the down side to the up bay, and the driver didn't have to walk far to get from one end of the train to the other!

It was in this era that the HSTs arrived and the Deltics spent their final years on the Kings Cross-York sweeper services. There were three Deltics that I only travelled behind once, all of them are Kings Cross-Huntingdon or vice versa.

There were a number of Peterborough starters formed of HSTs in the 80s prior to the wires making it to Peterborough in around 1987/8. These were formed of HSTs running empty from Bounds Green that were to form the mid morning departures from KX before the first up trains from further afield made it south. Useful extra runs in otherwise dead time for the stock, a d helped developed the Peterborough / Huntingdon commuter market for when electrification was completed.
Electrification brought the Hitchin-Peterborough service firmly into the NSE orbit. The Peterborough patly loco hauled trains mostly finished in May 1987. One morning HST working lasted for a little while after electrification, and ended in May 1990. But, generally speaking, Inter City would have been delighted at not needing to call at Huntingdon any more
The local MP was the PM at the time!
All of this happened before John Major became Prime Minister.

It seems to me that Peterborough makes an obvious location to change trains if heading further north and Huntingdon and St Neots have a decent half hourly service into central London and beyond into the South at Gatwick/Horsham.
It is important to note that the Huntingdon-Peterborough one way flow is big, at 117k. Peterborough is Huntingdon's most important station after St Pancras, and Huntingdon is Peterborough's most important station after Kings Cross. Nice as it might be to terminate Thameslink at Huntingdon (or Alconbury?) the big difficulty is that it isn't feasible to pile all of those Huntingdon-Peterborough journeys onto long distance trains.
 

William3000

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There is a lot of confusion here.

Significant numbers of long distance trains calling at Huntingdon was a diesel era thing.

In the days of steam the service to intermediate stations between Hitchin and Peterborough was part of the ECML service not the suburban service. Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy and Biggleswade were little market towns with a sparse service of loco hauled trains to/from Kings Cross, and usually referred to as parliamentary services, or parlies. Arlesey had closed in 1959. The trains were mostly steam hauled right up to the closure of Top Shed in 1963.


No, St Ives-Kettering closed in 1959, and had its own station Huntingdon East, though it was almost adjacent to Huntingdon North. The Kettering-Cambridge service was 3 trains per day.

Things began to change in the 1960s. St Neots had the Longsands and Cromwell Road estates, Huntingdon had Oxmoor. Various services had gone over to DMU when steam finished but it was only in 1967 that this became a 1tp2h service Hitchin-Huntingdon, with ECML Inter City sweeper services calling at Huntingdon to provide connections for Peterborough. There were sill a few loco hauled through trains Peterborough to/from Kings Cross, mostly at peak times, and still referred to as the Peterborough parlies.


The new station at Stevenage opened in 1973. The Inter City calls there replaced calls at Hitchin, not Huntingdon.



There were various other ECML upgrades in the 1970s. Bottlenecks at Arlesey, Sandy and Huntingdon were removed, and a big realignment at Offord to increase speeds. It was as a result of putting 4 tracks through Sandy and Huntingdon that they lost their platforms on the fast lines. New fast/slow line crossovers were installed but these were 40 mph. It all happened a bit too early to get 70 mph turnouts.



The next big event was the introduction of electric trains to Royston in 1978. The Hitchin-Huntingdon shuttle increased to hourly, connecting with the fast Royston trains, and got refurbished Met Cam DMUS, which were based at Cambridge and also worked the Royston shuttle. There was sufficient gaps in the ECML service for the DMUs to shunt across from the down side to the up bay, and the driver didn't have to walk far to get from one end of the train to the other!

It was in this era that the HSTs arrived and the Deltics spent their final years on the Kings Cross-York sweeper services. There were three Deltics that I only travelled behind once, all of them are Kings Cross-Huntingdon or vice versa.


Electrification brought the Hitchin-Peterborough service firmly into the NSE orbit. The Peterborough patly loco hauled trains mostly finished in May 1987. One morning HST working lasted for a little while after electrification, and ended in May 1990. But, generally speaking, Inter City would have been delighted at not needing to call at Huntingdon any more

All of this happened before John Major became Prime Minister.


It is important to note that the Huntingdon-Peterborough one way flow is big, at 117k. Peterborough is Huntingdon's most important station after St Pancras, and Huntingdon is Peterborough's most important station after Kings Cross. Nice as it might be to terminate Thameslink at Huntingdon (or Alconbury?) the big difficulty is that it isn't feasible to pile all of those Huntingdon-Peterborough journeys onto long distance trains.
Absolutely no confusion whatsoever. I was talking about 1994/95. It was definitely class 91s and there were only a couple of trains that stopped per day. I regularly travelled to Leeds at that time and used it. Definitely post electrification and definitely post remodelling of Huntingdon station.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Here is the Intercity map from 1993/94 clearly showing Huntingdon as a stop on the ECML. But it was only a couple per day

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

There is a lot of confusion here.

Significant numbers of long distance trains calling at Huntingdon was a diesel era thing.

In the days of steam the service to intermediate stations between Hitchin and Peterborough was part of the ECML service not the suburban service. Huntingdon, St Neots, Sandy and Biggleswade were little market towns with a sparse service of loco hauled trains to/from Kings Cross, and usually referred to as parliamentary services, or parlies. Arlesey had closed in 1959. The trains were mostly steam hauled right up to the closure of Top Shed in 1963.


No, St Ives-Kettering closed in 1959, and had its own station Huntingdon East, though it was almost adjacent to Huntingdon North. The Kettering-Cambridge service was 3 trains per day.

Things began to change in the 1960s. St Neots had the Longsands and Cromwell Road estates, Huntingdon had Oxmoor. Various services had gone over to DMU when steam finished but it was only in 1967 that this became a 1tp2h service Hitchin-Huntingdon, with ECML Inter City sweeper services calling at Huntingdon to provide connections for Peterborough. There were sill a few loco hauled through trains Peterborough to/from Kings Cross, mostly at peak times, and still referred to as the Peterborough parlies.


The new station at Stevenage opened in 1973. The Inter City calls there replaced calls at Hitchin, not Huntingdon.



There were various other ECML upgrades in the 1970s. Bottlenecks at Arlesey, Sandy and Huntingdon were removed, and a big realignment at Offord to increase speeds. It was as a result of putting 4 tracks through Sandy and Huntingdon that they lost their platforms on the fast lines. New fast/slow line crossovers were installed but these were 40 mph. It all happened a bit too early to get 70 mph turnouts.



The next big event was the introduction of electric trains to Royston in 1978. The Hitchin-Huntingdon shuttle increased to hourly, connecting with the fast Royston trains, and got refurbished Met Cam DMUS, which were based at Cambridge and also worked the Royston shuttle. There was sufficient gaps in the ECML service for the DMUs to shunt across from the down side to the up bay, and the driver didn't have to walk far to get from one end of the train to the other!

It was in this era that the HSTs arrived and the Deltics spent their final years on the Kings Cross-York sweeper services. There were three Deltics that I only travelled behind once, all of them are Kings Cross-Huntingdon or vice versa.


Electrification brought the Hitchin-Peterborough service firmly into the NSE orbit. The Peterborough patly loco hauled trains mostly finished in May 1987. One morning HST working lasted for a little while after electrification, and ended in May 1990. But, generally speaking, Inter City would have been delighted at not needing to call at Huntingdon any more

All of this happened before John Major became Prime Minister.


It is important to note that the Huntingdon-Peterborough one way flow is big, at 117k. Peterborough is Huntingdon's most important station after St Pancras, and Huntingdon is Peterborough's most important station after Kings Cross. Nice as it might be to terminate Thameslink at Huntingdon (or Alconbury?) the big difficulty is that it isn't feasible to pile all of those Huntingdon-Peterborough journeys onto long distance trains.
I used the Huntingdon to Leeds trains in 1994 and 1995 - and that was very much during Major’s era as Prime Minister
 

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Magdalia

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Absolutely no confusion whatsoever. I was talking about 1994/95. It was definitely class 91s and there were only a couple of trains that stopped per day. I regularly travelled to Leeds at that time and used it. Definitely post electrification and definitely post remodelling of Huntingdon station.
The 1994 ECML timetable has one train per day in each direction calling at Huntingdon, 0600 Kings Cross-Edinburgh at 0640 and 2015 Leeds-Kings Cross at 2202. One train each way is not significant numbers, it is a token presence, that saved Inter City the trouble of changing the maps.
 
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30907

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My mistake then, why did I think I'd seen Huntingdon appear even in HST days?

Oh well.
Because of the Deltic+8 York slows which were replaced initially (1982) by York/Hull (alternately) HSTs. The off-peak Hulls went, along with the Cleveland Exec, no doubt to cope with growth elsewhere; the Cleethorpes also went - was it the last weekday daytime hauled Intercity at KGX?
 

William3000

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The 1994 ECML timetable has one train per day in each direction calling at Huntingdon, 0600 Kings Cross-Edinburgh at 0640 and 2015 Leeds-Kings Cross at 2202. One train each way is not significant numbers, it is a token presence, that saved Inter City the trouble of changing the maps.
That was the era I used them. I definitely went from Leeds to Huntingdon in June 1996 because I had been camping near Skipton in Euro 96. From memory that year the Leeds to Huntingdon was a little earlier as I think I was still light when I reached Huntingdon
 

Magdalia

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I definitely went from Leeds to Huntingdon in June 1996 because I had been camping near Skipton in Euro 96. From memory that year the Leeds to Huntingdon was a little earlier as I think I was still light when I reached Huntingdon
June is midsummer, when the sun sets at about 2125 here in the Fens. On a clear evening it is still quite light at 2200.
 

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