Previous Fares without Railcard

[M19363]

Hi all,

I recently got caught travelling without a railcard and paid the fine. However, they have looked into my previous journeys and found another 87 railcard journeys in which I didn’t actually have one.

Obviously very stupid and ignorant of me which I am now of course regretting.

I have contacted a solicitor with a review of someone in a similar scenario to me who had 138 other journeys and the solicitor managed to get him off without prosecution and a fine for the unpaid fairs.

I’m just wondering how likely it will be if I own up, apologise and offer to pay for for the fares and any fees incurred that I’ll come away without prosecution.

Total solicitors fees would be around £1000 which is obviously a lot of money on top of the unpaid journeys.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[MrJeeves]

Hi @M19363, welcome to the forum.

Which train operator were you stopped by?

 

[M19363]

Hi @M19363, welcome to the forum.

Which train operator were you stopped by?

Sorry I should’ve mentioned in the original post. It’s TransPennine Express.

 

[WesternLancer]

Hi all,

I recently got caught travelling without a railcard and paid the fine. However, they have looked into my previous journeys and found another 87 railcard journeys in which I didn’t actually have one.

Obviously very stupid and ignorant of me which I am now of course regretting.

I have contacted a solicitor with a review of someone in a similar scenario to me who had 138 other journeys and the solicitor managed to get him off without prosecution and a fine for the unpaid fairs.

I’m just wondering how likely it will be if I own up, apologise and offer to pay for for the fares and any fees incurred that I’ll come away without prosecution.

Total solicitors fees would be around £1000 which is obviously a lot of money on top of the unpaid journeys.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

most cases like yours can be settled out of court with step by step advice from people here through the process, rather than needing a solicitor - thus saving paying those solicitors fees

You'd need to provide more info for people to help you - eg do you from your own records agree that you bought tickets with a railcard discount on 87 occasions when you did not hold a valid railcard / the railcard had expired?

 

[johnny_t]

Usually, they have a combination of things they have caught you doing, and things they heavily suspect you of. The usual approach is then to either offer a settlement for the things that they heavily suspect you of, plus the thing they caught you doing, OR, threaten court action for the thing they have caught you doing.

If you've already settled the thing they caught you doing, they have very little leverage with the rest. Buying a ticket without a railcard isn't a crime, using it is, and presumably they have no proof of that. Your next move can be to just ignore it, depending on your attitude towards risk.

 

[M19363]

most cases like yours can be settled out of court with step by step advice from people here through the process, rather than needing a solicitor - thus saving paying those solicitors fees

You'd need to provide more info for people to help you - eg do you from your own records agree that you bought tickets with a railcard discount on 87 occasions when you did not hold a valid railcard / the railcard had expired?

Great, thank you for your reply.

Yes. I think the first few, I didn't realise I'd done it but then once I realised I'd gotten away with it, I continued to buy railcard discounted tickets, knowing I didn't have one.

Any other questions or info required, please let me know. Looking to resolve this ASAP.

Thank you

 

[WesternLancer]

I’m just wondering how likely it will be if I own up, apologise and offer to pay for for the fares and any fees incurred that I’ll come away without prosecution.

Basically the answer to this is yes (and if that did not happen then that might be the time to consider using a solicitor) - but let us have a bit more information - eg did you actually have a railcard at any stage and it had expired without you noticing but you kept using it
or were you claiming a discount but never had a railcard and were just deliberately evading the fare by claiming the discount?

- are you entitled to a railcard and if so have you bought a new one now?

 

[M19363]

Basically the answer to this is yes (and if that did not happen then that might be the time to consider using a solicitor) - but let us have a bit more information - eg did you actually have a railcard at any stage and it had expired without you noticing but you kept using it
or were you claiming a discount but never had a railcard and were just deliberately evading the fare by claiming the discount?

- are you entitled to a railcard and if so have you bought a new one now?

I had a railcard years before the journeys in question, but didn't bother renewing after I realised it barely ever got checked. So in short, yes I was deliberately evading the fare and claiming the discount. Again very stupid of me now I know.

I am eligible for one but don't have one. But have stopped buying railcard discounted tickets.

 

[Hadders]

If you've engaged a solicitor then you should really take their advice - that is what yo're paying them what I imagine is quite a large sum of money for! The case is straghtforward and there really isn't the need to use a solicitor for this sort of thing

Generally speaking train companies will settle this sort of thing out of court as long as you co-operate with them and haven't come to their attention before. This would normally cost the value of the fares for the journeys made at the full Amytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase plus an admin fee, typically £150. If there are 87 journeys this could be very expensive, even more so when you add the solicitors fee to this.

If it were me, I would be seeing if you could get your solicitor to negotiate the settlement to be the difference between the fares and use the off-peak fare rather than Anytime ehere appropriate, but this isn't normally how these things work.

 

[M19363]

If you've engaged a solicitor then you should really take their advice - that is what yo're paying them what I imagine is quite a large sum of money for! The case is straghtforward and there really isn't the need to use a solicitor for this sort of thing

Generally speaking train companies will settle this sort of thing out of court as long as you co-operate with them and haven't come to their attention before. This would normally cost the value of the fares for the journeys made at the full Amytime rate with no credit given for the invalid tickets you did purchase plus an admin fee, typically £150. If there are 87 journeys this could be very expensive, even more so when you add the solicitors fee to this.

If it were me, I would be seeing if you could get your solicitor to negotiate the settlement to be the difference between the fares and use the off-peak fare rather than Anytime ehere appropriate, but this isn't normally how these things work.

I haven't yet engaged a solicitor, I've just been quoted a fee for their service.

I know, this is going to be a very costly mistake. The vast majority of them were only short journeys that usually cost around £15 so was hoping it wouldn't be as much as £150 per each journey.

 

[Hadders]

I haven't yet engaged a solicitor, I've just been quoted a fee for their service.

Ah ok. My personal view is that as long as you co-operate with TPE then you should be able to deal with this yourself.

The vast majority of them were only short journeys that usually cost around £15 so was hoping it wouldn't be as much as £150 per each journey.

Just to confirm that one admin fee is added to the total, not to each journey.

 

[M19363]

Ah ok. My personal view is that as long as you co-operate with TPE then you should be able to deal with this yourself.


Just to confirm that one admin fee is added to the total, not to each journey.

Ah I see. Thank you for the advice, much appreciated!

 

[WesternLancer]

I had a railcard years before the journeys in question, but didn't bother renewing after I realised it barely ever got checked. So in short, yes I was deliberately evading the fare and claiming the discount. Again very stupid of me now I know.

I am eligible for one but don't have one. But have stopped buying railcard discounted tickets.

OK - so one thing you could do now is immediately buy a Railcard you are entitled to have - that is then something you can say to them in your reply asking for a settlement as an example of something you have done to 'prevent the issue happening again' - see the cost of the railcard as an investment in not being prosecuted (as well as a legit way to save money on fares for the next few months)

Just to be clear - have they written to you about any of this yet? If so then upload a copy of what you have been sent with your personal details and ref number etc obscured.

 

[M19363]

OK - so one thing you could do now is immediately buy a Railcard you are entitled to have - that is then something you can say to them in your reply asking for a settlement as an example of something you have done to 'prevent the issue happening again' - see the cost of the railcard as an investment in not being prosecuted (as well as a legit way to save money on fares for the next few months)

Just to be clear - have they written to you about any of this yet? If so then upload a copy of what you have been sent with your personal details and ref number etc obscured.

Okay I will do that right away thank you for the advice.

I have attached details of the email I received earlier today. A table of all journeys was included below as well.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay I will do that right away thank you for the advice.

I have attached details of the email I received earlier today. A table of all journeys was included below as well.

so if you don't dispute this letter and table about the number of trips taken then you need to ensure you do not miss their 14 day deadline but start drfating a reply to their letter using the general content advice that you will find @Hadders often posts on threads.
basically:
- apologise for that has happened
- explain you understand that it was wrong to travel without a valid ticket / valid railcard
- make it clear you have learned from this and will not do it again
- mention what you have done about it (bought a new railcard)
- end up by requesting if they would kindly consider resolving the matter without the need for court action

But before you send them a reply I would strongly suggest you post your proposed draft wording up here for people to check it before you send it.

You will find numerous examples of these sorts of drafts around the forum so have a look to get the general idea

 

[M19363]

so if you don't dispute this letter and table about the number of trips taken then you need to ensure you do not miss their 14 day deadline but start drfating a reply to their letter using the general content advice that you will find @Hadders often posts on threads.
basically:
- apologise for that has happened
- explain you understand that it was wrong to travel without a valid ticket / valid railcard
- make it clear you have learned from this and will not do it again
- mention what you have done about it (bought a new railcard)
- end up by requesting if they would kindly consider resolving the matter without the need for court action

But before you send them a reply I would strongly suggest you post your proposed draft wording up here for people to check it before you send it.

You will find numerous examples of these sorts of drafts around the forum so have a look to get the general idea

Thank you for the advice I'll be sure to follow it. Do you know how the repayment will be structured? As it's likely to be quite a lot of money, would it be possible to set up a payment plan to pay it off?

Thanks again.

 

[WesternLancer]

Thank you for the advice I'll be sure to follow it. Do you know how the repayment will be structured? As it's likely to be quite a lot of money, would it be possible to set up a payment plan to pay it off?

Thanks again.

No - they almost never entertain payment plans I'm afraid - that's because they don't want to incur all the hassle of ensuring you pay, dealing with you if you default etc etc - they usually want paying in full and promptly - so you need to also find a way to do that (eg consider if it's possible to borrow money from trusted friends or family for example). But if they offer you a settlement plan then you can at least ask if they will accept payment in instalments, but be prepared for them to say no

In contrast if they took you to court the court allows fines etc to be paid in instalments (because the court employs bailiffs etc to come and find you if you don't pay, or can get an attachment of earnings order etc - by which time all sorts of extra costs will have been added on....) - but going to court involves getting a criminal record which I assume you wish to avoid....

They will then be seeking the (punitively costly) Anytime Single Fare for the journey involved, probably with no allowance given for the sum paid already (you can look those fares up here to get some idea of what you might be asked for - www.brfares.com )

Then they will charge an 'admin' fee for their costs of investigating all of this - typically maybe around £150

so you can see if we are talking 87 single journeys over any significant distance they may be asking for a considerable sum.

This is why you need to check your records of travel to see if it matches the table they have already sent you

 

[M19363]

No - they almost never entertain payment plans I'm afraid - that's because they don't want to incur all the hassle of ensuring you pay, dealing with you if you default etc etc - they usually want paying in full and promptly - so you need to also find a way to do that (eg consider if it's possible to borrow money from trusted friends or family for example). But if they offer you a settlement plan then you can at least ask if they will accept payment in instalments, but be prepared for them to say no

In contrast if they took you to court the court allows fines etc to be paid in instalments (because the court employs bailiffs etc to come and find you if you don't pay, or can get an attachment of earnings order etc - by which time all sorts of extra costs will have been added on....) - but going to court involves getting a criminal record which I assume you wish to avoid....

They will then be seeking the (punitively costly) Anytime Single Fare for the journey involved, probably with no allowance given for the sum paid already (you can look those fares up here to get some idea of what you might be asked for - www.brfares.com )

Then they will charge an 'admin' fee for their costs of investigating all of this - typically maybe around £150

so you can see if we are talking 87 single journeys over any significant distance they may be asking for a considerable sum.

This is why you need to check your records of travel to see if it matches the table they have already sent you

I see. Based on my estimations I’m expecting at least £2000. I simply don’t have the means to pay that. I assume people have been in this scenario before in which case, what happens?

I appreciate all your time and help thank you.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 17:30 ==

In term of my response, I have drafted the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter regarding the use of discounted rail tickets without a valid railcard.

I want to begin by offering my sincere and unreserved apology. I fully accept that I travelled on discounted tickets without holding a valid railcard, and I now understand that this meant I was travelling without a valid ticket. I deeply regret my actions and acknowledge that what I did was wrong.

This experience has been a wake-up call, and I’ve taken it very seriously. I now fully appreciate the importance of travelling with a valid ticket at all times, and I want to assure you that this will never happen again. I have since purchased a valid railcard and will ensure I always meet the proper requirements for any future travel.

I am genuinely sorry for what has happened and the position I have put myself in. I respectfully ask if you would kindly consider resolving this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to repay any underpaid fares and contribute towards any reasonable administrative costs.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my response.

Yours faithfully,

Any feedback/amends you would make would be greatly appreciated. Again thank you so much for helping me. I’ve been totally stressed out by this situation and you’ve helped massively.

 

[enyoueffsea]

I assume people have been in this scenario before in which case, what happens?

You’ll be prosecuted.

 

[WesternLancer]

I see. Based on my estimations I’m expecting at least £2000. I simply don’t have the means to pay that. I assume people have been in this scenario before in which case, what happens?

I appreciate all your time and help thank you.

Well they just might agree a payment plan I suppose

If you can't accept their settlement offer for an out of court settlement because you can not afford it then you would have to reluctantly decline it and see what happens.

But they would probably tell you they were going to prosecute you in court when you would be found guilty of the single offence they caught you (which you probably admitted to them when stopped - ie you did not have a valid railcard)

Then the court would sentence you according to a formula related to income (this is the sentence as you would not be going to prison), the value of the ticket evaded on that occasion, plus costs, victim surcharge and that sort of thing.

From another thread I think it is :
- A fine based on your income (the sentence for the offence and discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the first opportunity)
- A victim surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards the railway company's costs
- Compensation for the fare avoided

This all adds up. But the court will accept payment by instalments.

You would also have a criminal record (for a relatively minor offence in the great scheme of things) which you would have to declare when asked in certain circumstances - eg job applications, or to your current employer depending on your contract - depending on your job or the sort of career you wish to pursue this may have differing impacts.

The railway may, I suppose ask the court to consider other cases of evasion when setting the above.




-

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 17:38 ==

In term of my response, I have drafted the following:


Any feedback/amends you would make would be greatly appreciated. Again thank you so much for helping me. I’ve been totally stressed out by this situation and you’ve helped massively.

Dear Sir/Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter regarding the use of discounted rail tickets without a valid railcard.

I want to begin by offering my sincere and unreserved apology. I fully accept that I travelled on discounted tickets without holding a valid railcard, and I now understand that this meant I was travelling without a valid ticket. I deeply regret my actions and acknowledge that what I did was wrong.

This experience has been a wake-up call, and I’ve taken it very seriously. I now fully appreciate the importance of travelling with a valid ticket at all times, and I want to assure you that this will never happen again. I have since purchased a valid railcard and will ensure I always meet the proper requirements for any future travel.

I am genuinely sorry for what has happened and the position I have put myself in. I respectfully ask if you would kindly consider resolving this matter without the need for court action. I am willing to repay any underpaid fares and contribute towards any reasonable administrative costs.

Thank you for taking the time to consider my response.

Yours faithfully,

Your draft seems along the right lines - but if you have time before the deadline wait say 24 hours to see if others here have thoughts on the draft before you send it.

 

[M19363]

Well they just might agree a payment plan I suppose

If you can't accept their settlement offer for an out of court settlement because you can not afford it then you would have to reluctantly decline it and see what happens.

But they would probably tell you they were going to prosecute you in court when you would be found guilty of the single offence they caught you (which you probably admitted to them when stopped - ie you did not have a valid railcard)

Then the court would sentence you according to a formula related to income (this is the sentence as you would not be going to prison), the value of the ticket evaded on that occasion, plus costs, victim surcharge and that sort of thing.

From another thread I think it is :
- A fine based on your income (the sentence for the offence and discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the first opportunity)
- A victim surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards the railway company's costs
- Compensation for the fare avoided

This all adds up. But the court will accept payment by instalments.

You would also have a criminal record (for a relatively minor offence in the great scheme of things) which you would have to declare when asked in certain circumstances - eg job applications, or to your current employer depending on your contract - depending on your job or the sort of career you wish to pursue this may have differing impacts.

The railway may, I suppose ask the court to consider other cases of evasion when setting the above.




-

Okay I see. Thank you.

Did you manage to read my proposed draft above? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[WesternLancer]

Okay I see. Thank you.

Did you manage to read my proposed draft above? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

just commented on it as missed it before - thanks for pointing that out

 

[M19363]

Well they just might agree a payment plan I suppose

If you can't accept their settlement offer for an out of court settlement because you can not afford it then you would have to reluctantly decline it and see what happens.

But they would probably tell you they were going to prosecute you in court when you would be found guilty of the single offence they caught you (which you probably admitted to them when stopped - ie you did not have a valid railcard)

Then the court would sentence you according to a formula related to income (this is the sentence as you would not be going to prison), the value of the ticket evaded on that occasion, plus costs, victim surcharge and that sort of thing.

From another thread I think it is :
- A fine based on your income (the sentence for the offence and discounted by a third if you plead guilty at the first opportunity)
- A victim surcharge of 40% of the value of the fine
- A contribution towards the railway company's costs
- Compensation for the fare avoided

This all adds up. But the court will accept payment by instalments.

You would also have a criminal record (for a relatively minor offence in the great scheme of things) which you would have to declare when asked in certain circumstances - eg job applications, or to your current employer depending on your contract - depending on your job or the sort of career you wish to pursue this may have differing impacts.

The railway may, I suppose ask the court to consider other cases of evasion when setting the above.




-

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: Thursday at 17:38 ==




Your draft seems along the right lines - but if you have time before the deadline wait say 24 hours to see if others here have thoughts on the draft before you send it.

Great thanks for all your help. I only received the email today so will wait a day or two for others to look over it.

 

[KirkstallOne]

I recently got caught travelling without a railcard and paid the fine.

Was this a Penalty Fare you paid for the 4th March incident?

Given there is plenty of time for the company to prosecute still (the 6th June incident could be prosecuted up to December), and the bill may be hefty, and you have discharged any criminal liability for the one incident they have firm evidence for, and prosecution would be trickier for the other incidents, they may be more willing to consider a payment plan or negotiate than usual

Their letter also seems to hint of a potential civil recovery rather than prosecution (or it is just an empty threat) but obviously that is a risk you would be taking if you ignore this.

I have to say though, you were caught on the 4th March and you continued dodging fares until the 6th June? That wasn’t a wise decision.

 

[M19363]

Was this a Penalty Fare you paid for the 4th March incident?

Given there is plenty of time for the company to prosecute still (the 6th June incident could be prosecuted up to December), and the bill may be hefty, and you have discharged any criminal liability for the one incident they have firm evidence for, and prosecution would be trickier for the other incidents, they may be more willing to consider a payment plan or negotiate than usual

Their letter also seems to hint of a potential civil recovery rather than prosecution (or it is just an empty threat) but obviously that is a risk you would be taking if you ignore this.

I have to say though, you were caught on the 4th March and you continued dodging fares until the 6th June? That wasn’t a wise decision.

Yes I paid that in March. There are 3 journeys after then which are genuine mistakes. I’d travelled numerous times since the fine in which I paid the full fare.

It may be worth acknowledging that in my response?

Thanks for your response.

 

[KirkstallOne]

It may be worth acknowledging that in my response?

I don’t think it will make a huge difference either way. Obviously you need to be very careful in future as you are firmly on their radar.

First decision is do you want to pay a couple of thousand pounds to resolve this problem, or take your chances with either a prosecution / civil case / no further action (my instinct is this is 50/50 whether this progresses further than more emails and letters if you ignore it but others may have a different opinion).

 

[M19363]

I don’t think it will make a huge difference either way. Obviously you need to be very careful in future as you are firmly on their radar.

First decision is do you want to pay a couple of thousand pounds to resolve this problem, or take your chances with either a prosecution / civil case / no further action (my instinct is this is 50/50 whether this progresses further than more emails and letters if you ignore it but others may have a different opinion).

Thanks yeah I’ve purchased a rail card now I won’t be making anymore mistakes.

I’m leaning towards finding a way to just pay the fees as I really don’t want a prosecution for bumping trains. Out of interest, why do you think there’s a possibility this could go no further?

Again, thank you for your response.

 

[KirkstallOne]

Just because the letter hints at a civil recovery and we don’t see train companies actually do this often although that may be changing. If they did make a civil claim the compensation awarded may be a lot less than the Anytime single basis they are using for settlement as I understand it would be calculated on their actual loss, likely the difference between your railcard ticket and a non-railcard one. You could even offer to settle on that basis.

For a criminal offence, they don’t appear to have much evidence that you used the railcard tickets without one so if you don’t provide that evidence it is not a slam dunk prosecution for them.

 

[M19363]

Just because the letter hints at a civil recovery and we don’t see train companies actually do this often although that may be changing. If they did make a civil claim the compensation awarded may be a lot less than the Anytime single basis they are using for settlement as I understand it would be calculated on their actual loss, likely the difference between your railcard ticket and a non-railcard one. You could even offer to settle on that basis.

For a criminal offence, they don’t appear to have much evidence that you used the railcard tickets without one so if you don’t provide that evidence it is not a slam dunk prosecution for them.

Thank you for raising this. On reflection, you're right. They don’t actually say anything about prosecution in the email. When I received the email I instantly went into panic mode and thought of prosecution.

It feels as though they’re trying to bait an admission by vaguely referring to a list of journeys. Thinking about responding cooperatively without admission. Something like the following:

Dear Sir/Madam,


I am writing in response to your recent letter regarding the incident that occurred on 4th March 2025, in which I was unable to present a valid railcard when asked. I fully understand the importance of holding a valid ticket for travel and regret the situation that arose.


I take your concerns seriously and appreciate the opportunity to respond. Since the incident, I have purchased a valid railcard and am committed to ensuring full compliance with ticketing rules going forward.


Regarding the additional journeys listed between 30/08/2022 and 06/06/2025, I do not have access to full ticketing records covering this period and therefore cannot verify the status of each journey. I would, however, appreciate clarification on how these journeys have been identified and on what basis they are being reviewed.


That said, I would like to approach this matter constructively. If there are any journeys for which it can be confirmed that a railcard discount was applied incorrectly, I am open to resolving the issue by repaying any underpaid fares. I would be grateful if you would consider settling the matter without the need for court proceedings.


Thank you for your time and consideration. I look forward to your response.

This way it

• Shows I'm taking the matter seriously.
• Does not admit guilt for the 85 journeys.
• Leaves room for settlement, if they can present evidence.
• Protects my legal position in both civil and criminal contexts.

Please let me know your thoughts. Thank you.

 

[Haywain]

Thank you for raising this. On reflection, you're right. They don’t actually say anything about prosecution in the email. When I received the email I instantly went into panic mode and thought of prosecution.

I think it is rather naïve to think that because prosecution isn't mentioned it might be off the table. The threat of prosecution is TPE's leverage over you and what will be used to seek a settlement.