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ESR - AWS cancelling board location

MrsCake21

Member
Joined
20 Nov 2024
Messages
25
Location
Walsall
Hi all,

With reference to an ESR, on a bi-di line, can I ask where the cancelling board goes? There are 2 aws warning alerts. One for the emergency indicator and one for the warning board. So coming in the opposite direction, where would you get the cancelling board? After the 2nd one?

What is the distance between the 2 warnings?

Can a ESR be spate boarded when finished ? Would you require 3 spate boards? 2 for the warnings and 1 for the speed itself?

If an ESR lasts more than 3 days, does it get re-issued on the late notice board?

Thanks
 
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Tilting007

Member
Joined
21 Oct 2024
Messages
171
Location
Rugby
Rule book will show 200m but it should be 4 secs at Linespeed.

ESR won’t be SPATE. It would be removed.

ESR should be in the late notice case as soon as it is issues.
 

driver9000

Established Member
Joined
13 Jan 2008
Messages
4,432
When an ESR is no longer needed it is removed and a cancellation notice is issued.
 

Tomnick

Established Member
Joined
10 Jun 2005
Messages
5,900
Hi all,

With reference to an ESR, on a bi-di line, can I ask where the cancelling board goes? There are 2 aws warning alerts. One for the emergency indicator and one for the warning board. So coming in the opposite direction, where would you get the cancelling board? After the 2nd one?

What is the distance between the 2 warnings?

Can a ESR be spate boarded when finished ? Would you require 3 spate boards? 2 for the warnings and 1 for the speed itself?

If an ESR lasts more than 3 days, does it get re-issued on the late notice board?

Thanks
There should be two cancelling indicators, one normally approx 180m (or minimum 45m) beyond the magnet for the warning board, and the other the same distance beyond the magnet for the emergency indicator.
 

greatkingrat

Established Member
Joined
20 Jan 2011
Messages
3,067
In practice, particularly on bi-directional lines, the ESRs are set up incorrectly more often than not!
 

800301

Member
Joined
29 Dec 2022
Messages
370
Location
Essex
Yes I notice that quite a bit. Not many including myself bother to report it.

It always makes you wonder when one appears and then removed and then comes back with speed board in the same location but everything else different, with ATP there are times it will warble at you before you’ve even passed the warning board
 

Annetts key

Established Member
Joined
13 Feb 2021
Messages
3,003
Location
West is best
It always makes you wonder when one appears and then removed and then comes back with speed board in the same location but everything else different, with ATP there are times it will warble at you before you’ve even passed the warning board
Don't mention the chaos and confusion when a ESR or TSR is implemented near a signal AWS or within an ATP area... It took years for our local P.Way to get their heads around the requirements. Then we had to educate control as well...

With ATP the standard required the signal on approach to the warning board to be configured to "do" the unsupervised ESR stuff in the cab. Sometimes the previous signal as well.

Even with a programmed TSR (a supervised speed restriction), sometimes the commencement board or the termination board were not put in the same place that the planning documents stated. The ATP of course was programmed to the details in the planning documents. More than once the boards had to be moved.

Once, the P.Way got a bit carried away and did too much work (yeah, I know, unlikely but it happened). The termination board was some distance beyond where the work was supposed to have ended. Hence the ATP was giving the driver a target speed above that of the TSR speed.

This was the only time where I could confirm that the ATP was giving the train a higher speed than what was marked on the ground. That gave us a dilemma. Immediately new parameter plugs (chips) were ordered. But they take two to three days to get to us. So what to do in the meantime?
 

800301

Member
Joined
29 Dec 2022
Messages
370
Location
Essex
This was the only time where I could confirm that the ATP was giving the train a higher speed than what was marked on the ground. That gave us a dilemma. Immediately new parameter plugs (chips) were ordered. But they take two to three days to get to us. So what to do in the meantime?
Leaving Swindon P1 and 3 in the Up Direction ATP will step up quite some time before you’ve cleared the junction but from what I’ve been told it’s always been that way
 
Joined
23 Nov 2023
Messages
360
Location
Grimsby
If an ESR lasts more than 3 days, does it get re-issued on the late notice board?
The 72 hour limit in the notice case doesn't apply to ESRs. They are displayed either until the problem is repaired and the speed limit lifted, or until they can be published in the Weekly Operating Notice as a temporary speed restriction. In the latter case the ESR is converted to a TSR with removal of the Emergency Indicator ("dalek") on the start date of the relevant WON.
 

Falcon1200

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Joined
14 Jun 2021
Messages
5,014
Location
Neilston, East Renfrewshire
Don't mention the chaos and confusion when a ESR or TSR is implemented near a signal AWS or within an ATP area... It took years for our local P.Way to get their heads around the requirements. Then we had to educate control as well...

TSR and ESR arrangements were, and probably still are, a never-ending source of potential confusion to all involved! Control sometimes had to educate those outside (to be fair, more often PW rather than S&T staff) on what could and could not be done...
 

LCC106

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2011
Messages
1,396
For those that may not know SPATE stands for Speed Previously Advertised Terminated Early. As an Emergency Speed Restriction is not published in the Weekly Operating Notice it has not been advertised, so SPATE isn’t relevant here.
 

Belperpete

Established Member
Joined
17 Aug 2018
Messages
2,444
I once worked on one of the S&T design sections at Reading that worked out the position of TSR boards. In the London division where the signals were closely spaced, it could be difficult finding positions that didn't conflict with either a signal or it's AWS. If you tried moving the board back, it's AWS then conflicted with the signal in rear. The usual solution was to put the board at the signal, but this meant we had to issue a wiring alteration to get the signal's AWS disconnected so that it gave a fixed warning. And of course another mod to reinstate the AWS when the restriction was lifted.

We once had a restriction that involved putting a board at the London end signal on every platform at Reading, plus of course boards on the other side of the restriction for trains coming from London. We were wondering if they would have enough boards. When I came in on the morning the restriction was due to come into effect, I saw that they had found enough boards - all showing SPATE! The work had been cancelled last minute.
 

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