First Great Western: First Class train formations and Standard Class seats

[All Line Rover]

NOTE: I'm creating a lot of threads because I have many questions after going on an ALR!

Do FGW have 2, 2.5 or 3 First Class carriages on their HST's? It always seems to vary, and I have no idea how many different formations they have. Does anyone know?

Also, what's so bad about Standard Class on FGW? I haven't been able to try it yet (and to be perfectly honest, I don't want to try it!) but I want to know what all the criticism is about. Is it the comfortableness of the seats, the legroom?

 

[starrymarkb]

NOTE: I'm creating a lot of threads because I have many questions after going on an ALR!

Do FGW have 2, 2.5 or 3 First Class carriages on their HST's? It always seems to vary, and I have no idea how many different formations they have. Does anyone know?

Also, what's so bad about Standard Class on FGW? I haven't been able to try it yet (and to be perfectly honest, I don't want to try it!) but I want to know what all the criticism is about. Is it the comfortableness of the seats, the legroom?

Tall Seats, lack of tables and lighting are most of the enthusiast whinges. IME Legroom in the airline seats is very good indeed. Similar to priority seats on other stock... I find the seats comfortable and it's nice to be able to rest my head

 

[MCR247]

Nothing is wrong with standard class in FGW HSTs, its probably just that they replaced "beloved" IC70s (everything is so repetitive...) which were damn uncomfortable,.....

 

[starrymarkb]

Double post

 

[asylumxl]

Nothing is wrong with standard class in FGW HSTs, its probably just that they replaced "beloved" IC70s (everything is so repetitive...) which were damn uncomfortable,.....

Amen. Couldn't agree more.

 

[N Levers]

NOTE: I'm creating a lot of threads because I have many questions after going on an ALR!

Do FGW have 2, 2.5 or 3 First Class carriages on their HST's? It always seems to vary, and I have no idea how many different formations they have. Does anyone know?

8 car HST's have 2.5 First, 5 Standard (1/2 buffet)
7 car HST's have 2 First, most of 5 standard (small buffet)


Also there a 2 types of 8 car, one with 4 tables per standard carriage, one with 2 tables per standard carriage

 

[Zoe]

The new seats are not only better for safety but also offer much better privacy. FGW HSTs are used on semi-fast outer suburban services at peak times so the extra seats were needed.

 

[Squaddie]

Standard class on FGW is utterly grim, and I stopped travelling that way years ago. Mostly airline-style seating, with few (if any) tables, many "window" seats having nothing but blank wall alongside them, industrial-strength fluorescent lighting, seat backs so tall that you feel trapped in your seat, overcrowding, noise... I'd prefer to travel with National Express than FGW Standard.

 

[Drsatan]

NOTE: I'm creating a lot of threads because I have many questions after going on an ALR!

Do FGW have 2, 2.5 or 3 First Class carriages on their HST's? It always seems to vary, and I have no idea how many different formations they have. Does anyone know?

Also, what's so bad about Standard Class on FGW? I haven't been able to try it yet (and to be perfectly honest, I don't want to try it!) but I want to know what all the criticism is about. Is it the comfortableness of the seats, the legroom?

There are two and a half first class coaches on their HSTs. The first two coaches behind the power car are first class, while half of the buffet car contains first class seating.

Compared to some on this forum, I don't mind standard class on FGW's HSTs. The seats are a bit hard, but each row of seats has a plug socket mounted on the seats in front. This is a better arrangement than on Voyagers whereby the plug socket is mounted to the saloon panelling, meaning that if you want to plug in a device and you're sitting in the aisle seat you have to reach across someone's legs. Other than that, some may find Standard Class a bit claustrophobic since FGW's refurbishment program meant that more seats were installed in each coach, but I haven't had any problems.

Note that FGW's 142s, 143s, 150s, 153s and 158s are standard class only.

 

[N Levers]

There are two and a half first class coaches on their HSTs. The first two coaches behind the power car are first class, while half of the buffet car contains first class seating.

Not on 7 car HST's. There are only 2 first class carriages on 7 car HSTs.

 

[All Line Rover]

Compared to some on this forum, I don't mind standard class on FGW's HSTs. The seats are a bit hard, but each row of seats has a plug socket mounted on the seats in front. This is a better arrangement than on Voyagers whereby the plug socket is mounted to the saloon panelling, meaning that if you want to plug in a device and you're sitting in the aisle seat you have to reach across someone's legs.

It sounds like Class 395's, which I was very impressed by!

 

[N Levers]

A: Standard Quiet Carriage
B: Standard Carriage
C: Standard Disabled toilet carriage
D: Standard "Volo TV" carriage
E: (only on 8 cars) Standard Carriage
F (7 car): Standard Mini Buffet
F (8 car): First Full Buffet
G: First Quiet Carriage
F: First Carriage

 

[Zoe]

The seats are a bit hard, but each row of seats has a plug socket mounted on the seats in front.

The only issue with this is that there is only one socket for each two seats.

 

[devon_metro]

The only issue with this is that there is only one socket for each two seats.

I'm not aware of any UK train where there is a socket for every single seat.

 

[schwa]

People will never be happy.. its just all opinion at the end of the day. I do agree the lighting is a little bright, particularly at night.

 

[Yew]

Nothing is wrong with standard class in FGW HSTs, its probably just that they replaced "beloved" IC70s (everything is so repetitive...) which were damn uncomfortable,.....

They are the same seats on the EMT 158's right?

I like the 'Lounge' Feel the IC70's give, however I think in modern terms there is definitely a call for the higher back- private seating styles

 

[TEW]

I'm not aware of any UK train where there is a socket for every single seat.

First Class on FGW HSTs does for some seats. The tables for two have two plug sockets. The one individual seat in First Class also has two plug sockets.

 

[junglejames]

The new seats are not only better for safety but also offer much better privacy. .

Much better, or only ever so slightly better for privacy? Because I for one can guarentee I can see very little extra with the original seats. The only difference between the seats, is with the new seats, I cant tell the colour of your hair when sitting behind you. So is that really much better privacy? I have sat behind people in conventional Mk3s, and have absolutely no idea what they are doing. I would have to stand up to see over the seats. But i can do that now. Makes no difference.

As for safety. Something that is often thrown about on here, but which has yet to be proven for definite as far as I can see.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Nothing is wrong with standard class in FGW HSTs, its probably just that they replaced "beloved" IC70s (everything is so repetitive...) which were damn uncomfortable,.....

Have you noticed something? Whenever FGWs HSTs are complained about, IC70s always pop up into the equation. FGW lovers always say the haters are just upset because IC70s have run away to pastures new. However this is just a smoke screen. Because who is it that always brings IC70s up? Yep, its those that are supposedly glad they have been replaced. In this thread, the first person to mention IC70s is supposedly one of these.

Its like Pendy lovers always say the haters only hate them because LHCS has run away. However, it is only ever the Pendy lovers that mentions LHCS.

So you love FGWs HSTs. Thats brilliant. But will you just accept some people dont like them. You are so scared some people may find the seats uncomfortable, that you refuse to let people say that, and instead you have to jump in and make things up.

So, going by your anylysis. Am I right in thinking that if IC70s were put back in, the lights would automatically dim down a bit? Would the tacky colour scheme automatically run away? Wow, those IC70 seats are dam clever. What you dont seem to realise, is you have made IC70s sound even better than I thought they were, and you supposedly dont like them.

Some people like FGWs HSTs, because they think they have slightly more privacy. Some people like the harder seats. Some people like the extra back support.
But there are some people who hate the harder seats, and who find the seats too upright and uncomfortable. There are some who find the lights too bright, and for me personally, i think the interior looks tacky overall.
Don worry though, you will be pleased to know that the person in charge of FGW himself doesnt like the refurb either!

 

[TEW]

I believe it's the Ufton Nervet crash report that mentions that taller seats would be safer. You could find on the RSSB website I expect if you are interested. I much prefer the new colour scheme, the blue is much nicer than horrible cream favoured by BR imo. The change is much more pronounced on the refurbished west units, imo the blue makes the interior far, far nicer on those.

 

[158_Sprinter]

People will never be happy.. its just all opinion at the end of the day. I do agree the lighting is a little bright, particularly at night.

But it looks good reflecting off the Teign Estuary between Teignmouth and Newton Abbot
Great for photographing

 

[junglejames]

I believe it's the Ufton Nervet crash report that mentions that taller seats would be safer. You could find on the RSSB website I expect if you are interested.

Ive been told its mentioned in reports, but whenever i look at them, there is nothing that mentions IC70s as being unsafe, or anything saying taller seats would be better. Unless i missed something.

Certainly some people try and claim IC70s are unsafe, but this has never been mentioned in a report.

 

[starrymarkb]

I beleive one of the issues with the IC70 was that the plastic backs had a tendency to shatter with shards causing injury. Newer seats have to flex rather then shatter.

One of the FGW fleet engineers contributed this to uk.railway...

I saw the results of the testing
that took place within a test rig of the seats proposed to replace the
old IC70s. Because of the injuries received by people involved in
earlier Mk3 crashes, as well as Ufton Nervet it was obvious no
authority would be given to keep the old seats in refurbished HSTs.
Originally the refurbished sets were to have the old seats re-
upholstered. Then Volo had to test the seats proposed for their coach.
The first film involved the old IC70 seating in a simulated collision.
We knew from injuries received that the seats had broken in places,
but the amount of sharp plastic shards flying around as shrapnel and
seat mountings failing was astonishing. So IC70 was a no go. The seat
design chosen by Volo was done on the basis of it's behaviour under
the same crash test conditions. the nonsense about "crash test
dummies" not being accurate is just that, nonsense. They were the same
as those used by Thatcham for crash testing cars. The Grammer seats
selected exceed the Volo seating standard for crash-worthiness. Of
course those claiming the railway is safe are correct, it is far safer
than the gutter press will allow it's readers to know. But at Ufton
Nervet it wasn't the railway that caused the death and injury. The
interior of those mk3s was shocking, even to those who had experienced
Ladbroke Grove. The deaths were in the headlines, but some of the
injuries sustained from flying around that interior were horrific and
as an industry we have to learn and minimise the risk where we can.
Seatbelts are not practical, but let's remember that the person who
started that debate had just seen his daughter die in front of him. So
after a lot of research new laminated windows and much stronger seats
designed not to shatter and keep passengers constrained within a space
whilst allowing a survival space when the roof is crushed downwards
were installed. (At least one of the coaches at Ufton Nervet had the
roof down to the top of the seats). Train crashes are extremely rare,
but there have been several road accidents and one suicide by a car
driver affecting the railways in recent years. The adoption of "rows
of tombstones" is worth the effort if it minimises the risk to
passengers from another Ufton Nervet. I personally, and my parents,
the biggest critics of train seating I know, prefer the new seating,
and from feedback received so do many others. In terms of layout it's
little different to many European operators, and I personally find it
more comfortable than the latest ICE seating or the "Euromed" TGVs in
Spain which are the most recent trains I've travelled on over
there.

 

[CardiffKid]

Nothing is wrong with standard class in FGW HSTs, its probably just that they replaced "beloved" IC70s (everything is so repetitive...) which were damn uncomfortable,.....

Do excuse the ignorance, but what is an IC70 - Intercity something I suppose?

 

[AlterEgo]

Do excuse the ignorance, but what is an IC70 - Intercity something I suppose?

The IC70 is a much-beloved seat which was fitted to Mk3 carriages (such as those in HSTs); I think the IC must stand for InterCity:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=717359 - A few pics there....