First Transpennine Express

[185]

what are you talking about? TPE seesm a pretty decent franchise to me. They do the best with the cards they were dealt

Corrected...
They do their best with the cards they bidded for.

 

[DarloRich]

Corrected...
They do their best with the cards they bidded for.

Did they not bid for bigger trains? 4 car instead of the 3 the got?

 

[185]

Did they not bid for bigger trains? 4 car instead of the 3 the got?

No - their bid was 3. If you read earlier in the thread it mentions that the would-be managing director was quizzed about the small size of the units in his bid, compared to the other two offering four.

It was only two years down the line when numbers recovered they realised the shortage of seats on 185s required a fourth coach.

 

[DarloRich]

Wasnt invovled in railways at that time ( only "back in" for a year or so). I thought it was 4 from the outset. I stand corrected.

 

[IanXC]

I've a rather strong suspicion the finish dates of VWC, Northern, XC and TPE are all being matched.

I think the return of the EC franchise to the private sector will end up happening at the same time too.

I think this link came from another thread here, I think its a very interesting set of proposals on franchise remapping. Not quite sure how well it fits with McNulty tho. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/rvfm-jacobs-franchising-march2011.pdf

The emerging recommendations, based on the assessment of the shortlisted options,
are as follows:
 Merge C2C into Greater Anglia.
 Merge Thameslink and Southern with retention of residual GN services.
 Split London Midland, with West Coast / West Midlands electric services merged
with Inter City West Coast; and West Midlands diesel routes mapped to Chiltern.
 Split Transpennine, with TP-North services merged with CrossCountry, TP-South
services merged with East Midlands Trains, and TP-West Coast services merged
with Northern Rail. Potentially transfer Manchester-Scotland (WCML route)
services to West Coast following north west electrification.
 The combined TP-North / CrossCountry franchise could beneficially be merged
with Inter City East Coast, providing some synergy in Yorkshire and on the
northern half of the ECML.
 If appropriate in the context of alignment with PTE geographies, improved market
focus, and closer vertical integration with Network Rail, the expanded Northern
Trains franchise can be split into separate NE and NW parts to produce separate
West Yorkshire- and Greater Manchester-focussed TOCs.

EC-XC-TPnorth is a bit of a monster tho! I think it should probably loose the ex Central Trains routes from New Street.

 

[sulli_os]

They did bid 4 - the DfT knocked it back to 3 (or at least, that is what I certainly recall).

Anyway... The biggest mistake made is the name. Had they called it First London Transpennine Express they'd be on their fifth set of new rolling stock and third round of infrastructure improvements...

 

[PR1Berske]

They did bid 4 - the DfT knocked it back to 3 (or at least, that is what I certainly recall).

Anyway... The biggest mistake made is the name. Had they called it First London Transpennine Express they'd be on their fifth set of new rolling stock and third round of infrastructure improvements...

Cynic

 

[First class]

I think it's either going to be SercoAlbellio or First who get a "North of England" franchise.

Albellio don't have the experience of running long distance semi-express in the UK, and First Group have proven to be a bit slippery in the franchise terms, (i.e. FGW breaking the contract albeit legally).

 

[Pumbaa]

I've a rather strong suspicion the finish dates of VWC, Northern, XC and TPE are all being matched.

I doubt. XC runs until 2014. There is no way they'll extend VT any further, and expression of interest has been received from bidders for the new future franchise, up to 2019? or 2026?

I imagine Northern and TPE will be matched though. Then we'll get a 185 on the Liverpool - Stalybridge stopper, and a 142 doing Middlesbrough to Manchester. Great.

 

[IanXC]

I doubt. XC runs until 2014. There is no way they'll extend VT any further, and expression of interest has been received from bidders for the new future franchise, up to 2019? or 2026? .

I think you're right about ICWC. I think that TP (Jan 12), NR (Sep 13), XC (Apr 16) and EC (who knows) will have some matching done.

I guess TP North could go to XC, and TP South to EM as transfers, then let a separate North East and North West local+regional franchise. TP Scotland will presumably go to ICWC on the current round.

 

[Turbocharger]

Whoever gets it, the usual chant applies. More coaches at peak times please! Sick to death of people with standard tickets crowding into FC because they think they should.

FC is small enough as it is on the TP route for gawd sakes.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I'd like to see TPE services that hit Leeds and Doncaster merged with East Coast. Give the others to West Coast.

 

[northwichcat]

The TPE franchise extension should see it running until 31st January 2017, and I can't see any reason why First shouldn't be awarded an extension: I think they are doing an excellent job of operating the Transpennine franchise.

I think that'd be bad news as that'd probably mean no new stock apart from on the Scottish route, which will probably be moved back out of the TPE franchise anyway. Blackpool won't be ready to switch to EMU before Jan 2017, so we'll see TPE running their original routes with 51x185s and 9x170s between 2014 and 2017 despite passenger numbers being much much higher than in 2004.

 

[150222]

i don't think that xc should get tpe north as birmingham is their hub and they should stick to it. also what stock would it use. 185's really should stay with 1 toc and voyagers are based in burton on trent. plus there are no spare voyagers and even if there were they may have some short platform issues (garforth,south milford,thirsk,yarm?).

 

[sprinterguy]

i don't think that xc should get tpe north as birmingham is their hub and they should stick to it. also what stock would it use. 185's really should stay with 1 toc and voyagers are based in burton on trent. plus there are no spare voyagers and even if there were they may have some short platform issues (garforth,south milford,thirsk,yarm?).

The 185s would probably just be split between XC (TPE North) and EMT (TPE South) as required.

However a more adventurous proposal would be to send the fifty one 185s to ATW in exchange for their twenty three 158s which go to EMT and twenty seven 175s which would operate TPE North. Unfortunately however I think this probably creates a stock imbalance between TPE North and TPE South, as I suspect that twenty seven 175s would be insufficient to work the TPE North operation, especially if running single, two-car 175s was to be avoided, while twenty three 158s is probably more trains than is required to operate TPE South, even assuming doubling up of some TPE South services and that some of the additional 158s are used to strengthen Liverpool-Norwich trains four car.

I agree that I don't think that TPE North really suits the Crosscountry operation. It'd be better merged with Northern if it has to be merged at all.

 

[MCR247]

185s should stay under one TOC, whether it's tpe or atw

 

[northwichcat]

I agree that I don't think that TPE North really suits the Crosscountry operation. It'd be better merged with Northern if it has to be merged at all.

The alternative suggestion is North TPE goes with East Coast.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The alternative suggestion is North TPE goes with East Coast.

If East Coast were to take over the First TPE North services, would there be any change to the service provision to Manchester Airport railway station, particularly in relation to new services from the existing East Coast timetable being extended there.

 

[MCR247]

No. Why would existing East Coast services be extended to Manchester Airport? :roll:

 

[tbtc]

If East Coast were to take over the First TPE North services, would there be any change to the service provision to Manchester Airport railway station, particularly in relation to new services from the existing East Coast timetable being extended there

I doubt there'd be any change, other than:

• Potential for some quieter Edinburgh - Newcastle services to be run by 185s (or equivalent), providing direct Edinburgh - Leeds/Manchester/Manchester Airport services
  
• Potential for co-ordianted stops between Newcastle and York, allowing better co-ordination at places like Northallerton (maybe allowing TPE services to take more of the strain at Darlo etc)
  
• More efficient use of resources at Heaton in Newcastle

If I were doing this then I'd give East Coast all the services run by Northern in Darlington/ Middlesbrough/ Sunderland/ Newcastle/ Hexham/ Morpeth (currently run by 142/156s), thus meaning one TOC would be able to co-ordinate most services in North East England.

 

[150222]

maybe swap 142/156 for some 170's first. the 142's could ruin east coasts reputation .

 

[MCR247]

170s from where exactly?!

 

[150222]

170s from where exactly?!

i don't know southern if they electrify uckfield? just a joke anyway.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No. Why would existing East Coast services be extended to Manchester Airport? :roll:

To serve the needs of airline passengers...:roll:

Refer to item 1 of the posting by tbtc in posting # 50 on this thread

 

[150222]

To serve the needs of airline passengers...:roll:

but they don't go near MIA.

 

[MCR247]

To serve the needs of airline passengers...:roll:

If there really was needs wouldn't they serve there all ready?:roll:


It does quite annoy me when people make these type of comments

"If XC run Liverpool - Norwich we'll get loads of voyagers on the route won't we..."

"I want Northern & TPE to join 'cos we'll see 185s on all of the pacer routes..."

:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

but they don't go near MIA.

Maybe Kings Cross-Harrogate-Leeds-Huddersfield-Manchester Airport :roll:

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

but they don't go near MIA.

If they took over the franchaise of First TPE North, it would open a lucrative market for their newly extended franchaise.

I will say what I said to MCR247 in the previous posting, look at item I on thread posting # 50 by tbtc

 

[MCR247]

tbtc is making a completely different point to what you are making, so that post isn't really relevant. You wanted existing East Coast services from London/Newcastle/Edinuburgh to go to MIA....

 

[IanXC]

The 185s would probably just be split between XC (TPE North) and EMT (TPE South) as required.

The 51 185s could maybe operate TP North, and the Turbostar routes from New Street? Cascading the 170s to maybe Scotrail, and then the 38 170s (TPE and XC) could go to Northern, to displace sufficient 158s to EMT for TP South.