First Transpennine Express

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In the August 2011 issue of Modern Railways on page 8, there is an article about the delay to the Desiro 350/3 EMU order (with 2+2 seating in standard class) for the Manchester-Scotland route, but interestingly the final paragraph talks about the decision for Siemens and First TPE to develop a plan for the servicing of 10 of these electric sets to be accomodated at the Siemens Ardwick facility through the extension of the current trainshed, electrification of the diesel-only depot and the installation of a small amount of additional track.

 

[lm321412]

I do find First Transpennine Express a very good TOC.

Although the trains are small, I have always had a very good deal often getting cheap tickets whenever travelling around the North East.

I imagine its a difficult franchise to operate, as you are neither Intercity nor Regional and therefore managing flows and capacities will always be hard.

They seem an improvement over the previous Transpennine Express franchise and I think that there should be a definate extension for FTPE, especially as the work they've done seems to be of high standard to what was quite an average franchise before they took over.

Hopefully, an extension to around 2017 can happen and personally I would hate to see this combined with Northern again.

 

[Greenback]

Although I have very limited experience of actually travelling on TPE, it seems to me that they should be regarded as an inter city service, due to the fact that they serve some of the largest cities in the UK.

 

[danfitz123]

Why would XC be a better option?! :-x

DMU's are a better option than Loco hauled on the pennines. I cant see a class 91 on top of a mountain.

Although I have very limited experience of actually travelling on TPE, it seems to me that they should be regarded as an inter city service, due to the fact that they serve some of the largest cities in the UK.

A very slow way of getting to main cities yes, and with the seats on a 185, you really dont want to be sitting on them for 2.5 hours.

 

[150222]

DMU's are a better option than Loco hauled on the pennines. I cant see a class 91 on top of a mountain.



well you will have a job as the line is not electrified.

 

[Greenback]

DMU's are a better option than Loco hauled on the pennines. I cant see a class 91 on top of a mountain.



A very slow way of getting to main cities yes, and with the seats on a 185, you really dont want to be sitting on them for 2.5 hours.

I thought the Leeds to manchester city centre to city centre journey was competitive with road travel.

The 185's are not inter city stock, I agree. What i meant was that the franchise should be regarded as inter city, though such a term has long since fallen out of favour in any case!

 

[Eng274]

I cant see a class 91 on top of a mountain.

Funny you should say that..

 

[MCR247]

DMU's are a better option than Loco hauled on the pennines. I cant see a class 91 on top of a mountain.

What the hell has that got to do with anything?!

Oh wait, this is another of those posts that assumes that if XC took over all 220/221s would be used, and if East Coast ran it it would be 91s+Mk4s :roll::roll::roll:


:-x

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh wait, this is another of those posts that assumes that if XC took over all 220/221s would be used, and if East Coast ran it it would be 91s+Mk4s

I think my favorite post like that was someone who said they hoped Virgin would win the ICEC franchise as that would mean that 390s would be operating services on the ECML :roll:

 

[tbtc]

You responded to my earlier thread without referring to my following thread in which I stated that post-electrification of the Lancashire Triangle, there would be Class 185 units free to run on the Caldervale line by a new franchaise ( because the Preston to Blackpool line should also be electrified by then).

I had already made the comment about a TOC keeping the fleet intact and using the existing maintainence facilities. I am aware that the Class 185 units will be life-expired eventually and would like them to remain in their current area where their hill-climbing ability is best utilised. What I cannot understand is the reticence to accept that Class 185 units are suited to the Caldervale line, which is in the geographical area where these units run at present with the same type of terrain.

185s would be good for the Caldervale line (either the Leeds - Halifax - Manchester or the Leeds - Halifax - Blackpool services), where their hill climbing abilities would be much better used than Manchester Airport - Blackpool.

Really there is no reason for these thirty/powerful units to be on the Manchester Airport - Blackpool route (relatively flat), other than because of the franchise maps.

 

[150222]

(off topic) Is the 06.00 cleethorpes to barton on humber and 06.58 return still operated by a 185 and is it advertised as a northern or tpe service?

 

[tbtc]

(off topic) Is the 06.00 cleethorpes to barton on humber and 06.58 return still operated by a 185 and is it advertised as a northern or tpe service?

I've not heard that this had changed, so I assume so (and the train is run as "Northern", albeit with TPE crew), but I could be wrong

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I've not heard that this had changed, so I assume so (and the train is run as "Northern", albeit with TPE crew), but I could be wrong

The 0600 Cleethorpes to Barton on Humber is shown as being a Northern Rail service, due in at 0648 at Barton on Humber.

 

[tbtc]

The 0600 Cleethorpes to Barton on Humber is shown as being a Northern Rail service, due in at 0648 at Barton on Humber.

Yes, but (unless anything has changed) for a long time it has been run by a TPE 185 with TPE staff, albeit shown as a Northern service.

This is because it fits in with TPE's workings (rather than Northern running the service with a 153 but then having nothing to do for some time).

I *think* there was a similar arrangement at Norwich where a Central Trains 158/170 used to do a turn on the Yarmouth branch (run as an Anglia service, but with Central unit/ staff)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Yes, but (unless anything has changed) for a long time it has been run by a TPE 185 with TPE staff, albeit shown as a Northern service.

This is because it fits in with TPE's workings (rather than Northern running the service with a 153 but then having nothing to do for some time).

It must be a bit of a treat for the "early birds" on this route

 

[exile]

Leeds to Manchester is 46 miles and 68 minutes by car (according to Google Maps). In rush hours I guess you could add 50% to that - and in winter it's sometimes impossible.
By train, 54-56 minutes. So, competitive on time. Cost? £16.50 for a 92 mile return trip or about 18p a mile. Car - 1-1.5 gallons, 5-7 litres, £7-£10, each way. Plus wear and tear and depreciation, probably competitive on cost as well - for a solo journey.

 

[WillPS]

Yes, but (unless anything has changed) for a long time it has been run by a TPE 185 with TPE staff, albeit shown as a Northern service.

This is because it fits in with TPE's workings (rather than Northern running the service with a 153 but then having nothing to do for some time).

I *think* there was a similar arrangement at Norwich where a Central Trains 158/170 used to do a turn on the Yarmouth branch (run as an Anglia service, but with Central unit/ staff)

Yupp, continued under EMT too. Not sure the staff are/were EMT though.

 

[MCR247]

I believe EMT crew the Great Yarmouth run to retain route knowledge, or I guess it could be NXEA to retain knowledge on the 158s, I can't remember tbh!

 

[tbtc]

It must be a bit of a treat for the "early birds" on this route

Declassified First Class plus three coaches, compared to the normal 153? I'd make the effort to use the early train in that case

 

[northwichcat]

Really there is no reason for these thirty/powerful units to be on the Manchester Airport - Blackpool route (relatively flat), other than because of the franchise maps.

Really the Manchester to North Wales route plus the Chester depot containing the 175s should have gone to TPE. Then the 180s could have gone to TPE, when FGW no-longer wanted them, been based at Chester with their little sisters. However, the Welsh Assembly had to interfere with routes and who had the 175s.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Leeds to Manchester is 46 miles and 68 minutes by car (according to Google Maps). In rush hours I guess you could add 50% to that - and in winter it's sometimes impossible.

Heavy snow in winter can slow down the car time significantly - inflated further because it closes the non-Motorway routes so traffic that would have used other roads takes the Motorway as well.

It's all very well comparing city centre to city centre but a lot of people don't do city centre to city centre and instead do journeys like Stockport to Leeds or Manchester to Headingley.

 

[Greenback]

It's all very well comparing city centre to city centre but a lot of people don't do city centre to city centre and instead do journeys like Stockport to Leeds or Manchester to Headingley.

I believe exile was responding to my post (47?) in which I stated that the travel between Leeds city centre and Manchester was competitive with road. This was made in response to anothe rpost which appeared to state that TPE was a slow way of reaching cities.

It is quite correct to state that many people do not travel from city centre to city centre, but in my case I was doing exactly that!

 

[danfitz123]

What the hell has that got to do with anything?!

Oh wait, this is another of those posts that assumes that if XC took over all 220/221s would be used, and if East Coast ran it it would be 91s+Mk4s :roll::roll::roll:


:-x

Im saying that east coast are a bad choice to operate on the pennines. Its like eurostar operating northern routes.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Im saying that east coast are a bad choice to operate on the pennines. Its like eurostar operating northern routes.

This answer has brought to mind the most embarrassing situation that once occurred on the other side of the running lines to Longsight TMD when a very long new trainshed was built and a very large sign affixed so passengers of passing trains could see. The sign read:-

L'Eurostar habite ici

In the event, no Channel Tunnel trains ever ran to Manchester, but this sign was left up for many years before being removed.:roll:

 

[northwichcat]

In the event, no Channel Tunnel trains ever ran to Manchester, but this sign was left up for many years before being removed.:roll:

The late MP Gwyneth Dunwoody wanted direct services between the North West and Europe.

Imagine if she'd been made transport minister.

Government official "Mrs Dunwoody this year's transport budget is £x"
Dunwoody "£x will cover everything except the railways. For the railways we will need another £x multiplied by 5"
Government official "That won't be possible."
Dunwoody "Well you better make it possible. The passengers need the investment now not in ten years time."