London midland 150's - reallocations

[mawallace]

I note that 150126 has been around the FGW area lately.

What over London Midland 150's have gone to different franchise's already? And with the 172's getting ever nearer to delivey, are the plans for reallocations published anywhere?

 

[323235]

150108 has also transferred to FGW

 

[150001]

Based on other forums, this is a rough idea.

150001-lm
150002-lm
150109-lm London Midland
150107-lm
150105-lm



150101-fgw
150102-fgw
150106-fgw
150108-fgw
150122-fgw
150124-fgw First Great Western
150125-fgw
150126-fgw
150132-fgw
150214-fgw
150216-fgw


150103-nor
150104-nor
150110-nor
150111-nor
150112-nor
150113-nor
150114-nor Northern
150115-nor
150116-nor
150117-nor
150118-nor
150119-nor
150202-nor
150210-nor
150226-nor
150204-nor
150220-nor
150206-nor


150209-unallocated/no toilet
150212-unallocated/no toilet

Possible to insert toilet and move to Fgw.
or it might be worth considering keeping the 150/2s in 150016 and 150017 so they stay as three car sets.

 

[bjm2000uk]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bjm2000uk/6012272151/in/photostream/

150126 debranded from Network West Midlands and seen in Taunton friday evening

 

[150001]

Good picture! Thanks. How come the London midland class 150s have the led inner lights like the FGW units but the outer lights are still a dull yellow unlike the FGW 150s which have the white, high intensity lights? Will FGW fit new ones?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23066873@N02/4749657453/

Look at 150126 outer headlight-dull half yellow
Look at 150123 outer headlight-bright white

Will FGW fit the latter to 150108 and 126 in refurbishment? does it just involve changing a bulb?

Thanks in advance

 

[mawallace]

Announced today by the Dept of Transport
The change in rolling stock for each franchise under these agreements is as follows:
- LM will retain six Class 150 carriages (but release two x Class 153 carriages to FGW);
- FGW will receive four Class 150 carriages (and 2 x Class 153 carriages from LM)
- Northern will receive eight Class 150 carriages from LM and 14 x Class 142 carriages cascaded from FGW.

There are eight Class 150 carriages becoming surplus in London Midland which are not covered by the agreements with these TOCs. These trains are non-standard units that may subsequently be sought by another TOC, PTE or local authority for additional services.

Which ones are the "non standard" units.

 

[Class172]

Which ones are the "non standard" units.

To me that would suggest 150001, 150002, and the two carriages with no loos. But then again I thought the two scuds were staying. :?

 

[Anvil1984]

Permission to be confused

LM to retain 6 carriages (so possibly 3 trains)
FGW to get 4 carriages (2 trains)
Northern to get 8 carriages (4 trains)

8 substandard carriages (4 trains)

Doesn't that still mean a lot unanswered for

 

[Class172]

Permission to be confused

LM to retain 6 carriages (so possibly 3 trains)
FGW to get 4 carriages (2 trains)
Northern to get 8 carriages (4 trains)

8 substandard carriages (4 trains)

Doesn't that still mean a lot unanswered for

It doesn't seem to add up: after the 150/0s are reformed into the original sets there should be about 30 150s available. :?

 

[pemma]

Permission to be confused

LM to retain 6 carriages (so possibly 3 trains)
FGW to get 4 carriages (2 trains)
Northern to get 8 carriages (4 trains)

8 substandard carriages (4 trains)

Doesn't that still mean a lot unanswered for

Some LM carriages seem to be disappearing in to thin air:

Currently (after reforming) there is:
24x150/1s
7x150/2s
2x150/0s
a mismatched 150/2

It states the latter two are excluded from the figures given so that gives 31x2 car 150s to allocate.

Additional carriages:
FGW get 4 (2x150s)
Northern get 4 (2x150s)
LM get 4 (2x150s)

Replacement carriages (not mentioned in the press release):
FGW get 14 to replace 142s (7x150s)
Northern get 8 to replace EMT bound 156s (4x150s)
Northern get 12* to replace 180s (6x150s)
LM get 2 to replace FGW bound 153s (1x150)

That's a total of 24x150s allocated and 7x150s unallocated (plus the mismatched units)

* As stated in previous release

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Permission to be confused

LM to retain 6 carriages (so possibly 3 trains)
FGW to get 4 carriages (2 trains)
Northern to get 8 carriages (4 trains)

8 substandard carriages (4 trains)

Doesn't that still mean a lot unanswered for

Working on this announcement ignores what has previously happened/been agreed:

LM have/had 72 vehicles

Four have recently gone to FGW
Eighteen are pledged to FGW under a previous agreement
Twenty Four are pledged to Northern under a previous agreement
Four more to FGW
Eight more to Northern
Six stay at LM

Eight unallocated

Total 72

 

[Anvil1984]

Why dont they issue just an update on the total going to each TOC makes it a lot easier for people like me

 

[pemma]

Northern are claiming they will be getting an extra 22 carriages than previously allocated.

http://www.northernrail.org/news/6885

2x150/0s plus 7x unallocated 150s + mismatched 150/2 carriages = 22 carriages in total.

 

[Anvil1984]

Staff press release had the 22 Northern units as 8x150 coaches plus the return of the 142s from FGW

 

[150001]

This is confusing. I thought there were a lot more units going to FGW!:-?


I assume that the 150/2 centre cars will stay in place which is good for Northern and I have devised a list, on common sense on the numbers.


150101-lm-2 car
150102-lm-2 car
150003-lm-3 car
150104-lm-2 car
150005-lm-3 car
150007-lm-3 car

150106-fgw-2 car
150108-fgw-2 car
150125-fgw-2 car
150126-fgw-2 cars


150009-nor-3 cars
150010-nor-3 cars
150011-nor-3 cars
150012-nor-3 cars
150013-nor-3 cars
150014-nor-3 cars
150015-nor-3 cars
150016-nor-3 cars

150001-av-3 cars
150002-av-3 cars
150017-av-3 cars
150018-av-3 cars
150019-av-3 cars
150122-av-2 cars
150124-av-2 cars
150132-av-2 cars


150126 and 150108 are already at FGW and as 150125 has been with them before on hire, I'm guessing that. LM could be easy and just go numerically and I have given Northern the 3 cars for extra capacity. If the DFT have any common sense they would too! I would also have guesses that 101 and 102 would be off lease instead of 001 and 002 for extra capacity, however 101 and 102 can work on the Marston Vale line as they fit into the platforms. If National Express East Anglia were short of DMUs they could lease some of the spare 150s. In my mind, the spare 150s are a good backup for companies short of units or ATW could have them to replace some 142s to be sent to northern. OR if EMT wanted extra units because I remember a article once in a magazine suggesting 150s to replace 158s on short routes, due to better acceleration.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Northern are claiming they will be getting an extra 22 carriages than previously allocated.

http://www.northernrail.org/news/6885

2x150/0s plus 7x unallocated 150s + mismatched 150/2 carriages = 22 carriages in total.

Some political spin here see posts 11 and 13
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

This is confusing. I thought there were a lot more units going to FGW!:-?

I rekon you get 13 two car sets, see above

 

[pemma]

Edit: Sorry didn't notice Old Hill Bank had also mentioned some of the below. The same thing was getting discussed on two separate threads so I must have missed a couple of replies switching between them.

The conundrum's been solved by the user blue on northernrailways:

There's 72 x 150 carriages of which 28 are already allocated to Northern and 18 to FGW:
http://assets.dft.gov.uk/foi/dft-f0007261/dft-f0007261.pdf

This left 26 unallocated.

Now 8 additional 150 carriages have been allocated to Northern, 4 additional to FGW and 6 to LM. That leaves 8 150 carriages unallocated, which as the Press Release says the 2x150/0s and the 2 mismatched 150/2 carriages are unallocated.

So the NEW stock allocations are:

36 x 150 carriages for Northern
22 x 150 carriages for FGW
6 x 150 carriages for LM
14 x 142 carriages transferred from FGW to Northern
8 x 156 carriages transferred from Northern to EMT
15 x 180 carriages leaving Northern - no future confirmed.
2 x 153 carriages leaving LM for FGW.

 

[swt_passenger]

This is confusing. I thought there were a lot more units going to FGW!:-?

This announcement is really just about the 26 150 carriages left unallocated after the last announcement, so the 15 units/30 carriages previously going to FGW (ie 6 units from LO and 9 from LM) are not mentioned now, that's already decided and theoretically should have already happened.

Then finally there's also the 7 x 142s confirmed as going back into service with Northern, which is the news many posters have been expecting, but which had never been publicly confirmed by DfT. So good news all round for Northern - they've probably done as well out of the DfT as anyone hoped for.

 

[150001]

LM 150/1s

150005-2car
150007-2car
150009-2car

So FGWs 150/1 fleet is this

150101
150102
150104
150106 *=Probably
150108
150122
150124
150125
150126
150214*
150216*

Giving 22 carriages!

Then 12*3 car units for Northern

150003
150010 With 202 204 206 210 226 220 in them forming 3 cars or with the 150/1 forming their original 2 cars and the 150/2 back to 2 cars.
150011
150012
150013
150014
150015
150016
150017
150018
150019


And then unallocated

150001
150002
150209=without toilet
150212=without toilet

 

[pemma]

Does the FGW 22x include the 150s from London Overground.

No it's 22 from LM. The LO ones were actually seen as 142 replacement, but they obviously have both together at the moment.

 

[150001]

So 22 carriages from LM. That is a lot!

 

[Old Hill Bank]

So FGWs 150/1 fleet is this

150101
150102
150104
150106
150108
150122
150124
150125
150126
150132

with either 150214 or 150216. Giving 22 carriages!

Then 12*3 car units for Northern

150003
150005
150007
150009
150010
150011
150012
150013
150014
150015
150018
150019


And then what about

150001
150002
150016
150017

150202
150204
150206
150210
150226
150220


and 150209 and 150212 single cars. And also either 150214 or 150216.

You have double counted the six 150/2s, they are the centre cars in the twelve 3-car sets you have listed.

 

[150222]

So are northern getting 3 car ones or not?

 

[Nym]

Northern can form them however they want....

Northern already posess some 150/2 units that mean they can re-form some of the units they receive into 3 car units. But it is up to Northern what they do with them.

 

[pemma]

So are northern getting 3 car ones or not?

Apart from the 2x150/0s the 150s have to be returned in their original form, so most of the 3 car units will be reformed in to 2 car units.

 

[150001]

So, what is happening to 150001, 002 and 016 and 017. Northern? I reckon that Northern would keep them as 3 car sets however.

 

[Class172]

Noooooooo, don't go, I want 150001, 150002 to stay!

 

[pemma]

So, what is happening to 150001, 002 and 016 and 017. Northern? I reckon that Northern would keep them as 3 car sets however.

Northern would be a sensible destination for 4 x 3 car sets. The Manchester Victoria-Huddersfield service gets too many passengers for 2 car services and doubled up services are too long for some platforms, so in the lack of any units with SDO or money to spend on platform lengthening, 3 car 150s would be a good option there. The Victoria-Huddersfield requires 3 units for the standard pattern and extra at peak times.

 

[knight2004]

Well finally things will happen for the North, yes the 3 car trains will be perfect for routes in need of 1 extra carriage therefore freeing up other 1 carriages to add elsewhere or form another 2 car train elsewhere how many 153s does Northern have as 1 car trains? might the need to move stock around then?Ok so pacers will be back but for now its better than no trains at all!

 

[jamie_]

So, what is happening to 150001, 002 and 016 and 017. Northern? I reckon that Northern would keep them as 3 car sets however.

Remember that 001 & 002 are very non-standard and have a smaller fuel tank thank the rest of the 150 fleet so cant be added to a diagram where it does a lot of mileage, also as they are the prototypes I wouldnt be surprised if LM do special things to keep them running.....