Another Rail Blue Cancellation

[junglejames]

there was a very basic post over on the wnxx forum by Ingrid at RBC about this...



rather odd in my opinion... especially since so many folk have not reeieved either a letter, email, phone call (or even a Voice mail message) about the subject from RBC.
and thats on top of the folk who have been emailing and calling RBC for the past few weeks - that have not gotten any response.

i don't know the specifics of the RBC operation... but that post (to me) reeks of desperation, trying desperately to delay issuing refunds, and stave off the risk of bankruptcy.

i may be wrong.. and if i am... im sorry... but to me, it doesnt present the image of a company on a good financial footing

This posting is just normal company talk. Means very little. Especially, as you say, considering what we have heard from people struggling to get hold of Rail Blue.

 

[Masbroughlad]

Not looking good

 

[Dreadnought]

Even if this is just a hitch and they do get back to running trains - is anyone going to have the confidence to book on them? Don't think I will touch them again.

Personally I am now of the opinion that I will not book in advance for a RBC tour and would only 'pay on the day' when I can guarantee it is running.

 

[junglejames]

Personally I am now of the opinion that I will not book in advance for a RBC tour and would only 'pay on the day' when I can guarantee it is running.

Whats the point using them anyway! They usually only use 67s!!
Railtourer and Pathfinder for me. Im sure I will use Spitfire one day as well.
At the moment though, all my tours seem to be with Pathfinder.

Is a shame though, because when I did use RBC (when they had a decent 86 up front), they were good. Very pleasant trains.

 

[Masbroughlad]

What of the other operators who use their stock.....

Retro Railtours were going to run a trip this month. As not advertised yet, I take it they won't be? Maybe they will use another stock owner?

Who else uses RBC/Cargo D stock for their excursions?

 

[Dreadnought]

Whats the point using them anyway! They usually only use 67s!!

67s don't bother me and therefore I would book RBC tours if they were going somewhere I wanted to go, as I would with any tour company.

 

[junglejames]

What of the other operators who use their stock.....

Retro Railtours were going to run a trip this month. As not advertised yet, I take it they won't be? Maybe they will use another stock owner?

Who else uses RBC/Cargo D stock for their excursions?

I dont know of anybody else that does. Virtually everyone uses WCRC, except for Pathfinder which use Riviera.
UK Railtours? Who do they use? They are about the only ones Im not sure on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

67s don't bother me and therefore I would book RBC tours if they were going somewhere I wanted to go, as I would with any tour company.

I dont book railtours with 66s or 67s at the helm, unless the 66 is going to be replaced by something decent for some of the tour like with Pathfinder.

I was once booked on one of RBCs going over the HOW. As soon as it was confirmed it was a 67, I never bothered going!!

Like those that refuse to travel on Air conditioned stock, I have my own requirements for railtours! lol Amazingly the stock isnt one of them. I couldnt care if it was a Mk1, 2 or 3. But the loco does pay a part!

 

[fgwrich]

I dont know of anybody else that does. Virtually everyone uses WCRC, except for Pathfinder which use Riviera.
UK Railtours? Who do they use? They are about the only ones Im not sure on.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


I dont book railtours with 66s or 67s at the helm, unless the 66 is going to be replaced by something decent for some of the tour like with Pathfinder.

I was once booked on one of RBCs going over the HOW. As soon as it was confirmed it was a 67, I never bothered going!!

Like those that refuse to travel on Air conditioned stock, I have my own requirements for railtours! lol Amazingly the stock isnt one of them. I couldnt care if it was a Mk1, 2 or 3. But the loco does pay a part!

Likewise, not so botherd about what stock is on my tour (bar Rivera's ropey Mk2s)...But the motive power is a a pretty big draw for me - the other being the point/destination of the tour...

As for Rail Blue - Have to admit that after they switched motive power provider from DRS to DBS - Thats really the point where i started to loose interest in their tours, otherwise, had they stuck with DRS 47s by thetime when they ran the southern england to Settle & Carlisle tour - i may have considerd booking with them!

UK Railtours tours use Rivera Trains rolling stock - mostly the Crimson & Cream / Blood and Custard / The Royal Scot Mk1 rake, but occasionaly makes use of a mixed rake consisting of Great Briton Mk2s and some ' normal ' MK2s...

 

[junglejames]

UK Railtours tours use Rivera Trains rolling stock - mostly the Crimson & Cream / Blood and Custard / The Royal Scot Mk1 rake, but occasionaly makes use of a mixed rake consisting of Great Briton Mk2s and some ' normal ' MK2s...

So looks like Rail Blue and Retro are the only one using Cargo D.
Then any operator that uses DB traction, or as their TOC, use Riviera stock. Anybody using WCRC as the TOC and traction provider obviously use their stock as well. With DRS providing traction as and when required, except for their 2 contracts.

 

[metrocammel]

I can confirm that we're no longer using Cargo-D to facilitate our trains. We are currently sorting out our 2012 programme, but it will be with an alternative stock provider. Details should be confirmed within the next few weeks all being well.

 

[junglejames]

I can confirm that we're no longer using Cargo-D to facilitate our trains. We are currently sorting out our 2012 programme, but it will be with an alternative stock provider. Details should be confirmed within the next few weeks all being well.

Not good. About the only regular customer lost. Did Cargo D act as the TOC as well? Do they have a licence for that?

 

[alex57601]

No, Cargo-D are just providers of rolling stock.

 

[Masbroughlad]

What a massive shame that it has all gone t*ts up for them.

Must be bad if RR not using them anymore.

Why is it that not many entrepeneurial companies survive in private railways? Sad times

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Is the remaining Fife circle loco hauled diagram using Cargo D or EWS mk2s? When there was two diagrams there was a set of each.

 

[craig87034]

Is the remaining Fife circle loco hauled diagram using Cargo D or EWS mk2s?

The second diagram restarted on August bank holiday Monday and both sets are EWS mk2's

 

[Schnellzug]

What a massive shame that it has all gone t*ts up for them.

Must be bad if RR not using them anymore.

Why is it that not many entrepeneurial companies survive in private railways? Sad times

Maybe that's the problem. They didn't sound very entrepreneurial, did they?

 

[Masbroughlad]

Maybe that's the problem. They didn't sound very entrepreneurial, did they?

They were in the early days - incredibly so. They seemed to lose it over the last 6 months.

 

[Tracky]

I think the loss of a driving force is clear.

Also, I believe West Coast are really pushing their dominance of the charter market.

 

[Phil6219]

Also, I believe West Coast are really pushing their dominance of the charter market.

When they actually manage to provide rolling stock, and ones where the windows remain attached to the bodywork :roll:

I'm not a fan of aircon stock for railtours but I really did like RBC and Cargo-D, it is a shame that things are going bad for them.

As for West Coast, I've lost my patience with them after the last double screw up and hope that other tour companies find someone else (the problem is, who?).

Phil

 

[Masbroughlad]

When they actually manage to provide rolling stock, and ones where the windows remain attached to the bodywork :roll:

I'm not a fan of aircon stock for railtours but I really did like RBC and Cargo-D, it is a shame that things are going bad for them.

As for West Coast, I've lost my patience with them after the last double screw up and hope that other tour companies find someone else (the problem is, who?).

Phil

Have to agree - West Coast stock I have been on has been porly kept compared with RBC.

If RBC go under, I hope somebody new buys their stock and maintains it (in blue and grey!)

 

[Drimnagh Road]

Also, I believe West Coast are really pushing their dominance of the charter market.

That's if they don't have to pay Network Rail an awful lot of money for an awful lot of delay minutes caused by the kettle last week on the ECML

 

[junglejames]

When they actually manage to provide rolling stock, and ones where the windows remain attached to the bodywork :roll:

You are definitely pushing home your hatred of them, thats for sure.
Do we know what really happened regarding the Spitfire tours/ WCRC?
Is it really black and white?

To be fair, Compass claim they dont have a problem with them. Railtourer say they dont have a problem with them. Ive never had a problem with their rolling stock.

Yes, Cargo D had nicer stock. We cannot deny that. They kept it at a higher standard than a lot of TOCs. Perhaps thats the problem with Cargo D. Spent too much on the coaches. Afterall, coaches used predominantly in the spot hire market, never earn loads of dosh.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's if they don't have to pay Network Rail an awful lot of money for an awful lot of delay minutes caused by the kettle last week on the ECML

Was it the kettle that decided to try a bit of arson?!!
Ouch. Thats a lot of money to pay out! I would have thought WCRC would have that under control though. Either thought about in their business plan, or perhaps insurance in case of such situations?? I dont know.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Have to agree - West Coast stock I have been on has been porly kept compared with RBC.

If RBC go under, I hope somebody new buys their stock and maintains it (in blue and grey!)

DRS! Saves hiring in stock for the cruise train!!
Wont happen though. Not enough work for it.
It will probably go to WCRC or maybe even Riviera.
Or DB if they need more Mk3s!

 

[cj_1985]

here is my question... and its not something i have seen elsewhere...

but whatever the problem is...
is it at RBC... or is it Cargo-D..

RBC is a part of Cargo-D...
but its Cargo-D that own/lease the carraiges.. and are responsible for the costs associated with maintenance.

not to mention that the charges for storage at Crewe or Barrow Hill that will have to be paid.

as i also said... Harry Needle over on wnxx hinted at cargo-D owing a substantial amount of money to DRS...

so maybe its just a case of cargo-D not being able (or allowed) to move the stock.. and this is knocking onto RBCs operations.. so not an issue with RBC per say. But the bounced cheque doesnt help public opinion of RBC and its operations

but no doubt we will find out the truth in time...

 

[Chris125]

That's if they don't have to pay Network Rail an awful lot of money for an awful lot of delay minutes caused by the kettle last week on the ECML

I believe there's a cap - it would be rather unfair on small scale open access operators without one, as a failure in an unfortunate location could bankrupt them.

Chris

 

[junglejames]

I believe there's a cap - it would be rather unfair on small scale open access operators without one, as a failure in an unfortunate location could bankrupt them.

Chris

Yes I think there is a cap. Cant remember what it is though. Still a substantial amount if i remember rightly.

 

[Masbroughlad]

I can confirm that we're no longer using Cargo-D to facilitate our trains. We are currently sorting out our 2012 programme, but it will be with an alternative stock provider. Details should be confirmed within the next few weeks all being well.

Can you say who yet?!

 

[Phil6219]

You are definitely pushing home your hatred of them, thats for sure.
Do we know what really happened regarding the Spitfire tours/ WCRC?
Is it really black and white?

To be fair, Compass claim they dont have a problem with them. Railtourer say they dont have a problem with them. Ive never had a problem with their rolling stock.

I don't hate WCRC (although it looks like it) I am just still rather wound up over having two tours pushed back (with one being so far back it's going to be dark for a large chunk of it) and how it's cost me time off work which I couldn't get back. I actually appreciate what they are doing and how they are also managing to secure work and a future for classic traction

To give them some credit I never had a high opinion of mark 1s and early mark 2 stock but last year I went on my first mainline spin onboard what I thought was a mk 1 (but was actually an early mk2) and it was in excellent condition and actually warmed my opinion on such stock.

They have had some really good conditioned stock but then some where for instance the lavatories on 3 coaches are not working and taps won't work (yet only about an hour or so into the tour), rotting window frames (wooden frames where the paint has peeled off and the wood is clearly rotting away) and various windows not opening fully or in the case of some vent windows not opening at all.

I will hold my hands up and admit that I don't know all of what has gone on, I know only what I was told and that is now in the public domain. I know other operators have not had problems but wasn't there some other tours that got axed or delayed because of a shortage of stock (I know the Pathfinder one to York was supposed to use Riviera stock for that trip).

Perhaps there is something else going on, what concerns me at the minute is that I still don't have my tickets for next weeks trip. I rang SRT on Tuesday and they said they are still waiting for confirmed timings from Network Rail, perhaps there is some issue between NR and WCR, or WCR and SRT? I know we are due to run on a Wednesday but normally we are given the timings outside of the two week window. :?

To steer my post back in the general direction of being back on topic I would hope that the issues with RBC and Cargo-D can be resolved ASAP and if indeed it goes completely brazzers up then the stock would be used by someone else (and defo remain blue and grey as someone posted earlier).

I think DRS could find a use for the stock, It does run that cruise train and perhaps could see this as an opportunity to start branching out into the charter business, though keeping away from running railtours since I don't think many other railtour operators will appreciate a company they use for traction starting taking their own business...

Phil

 

[theblackwatch]

I think DRS could find a use for the stock, It does run that cruise train and perhaps could see this as an opportunity to start branching out into the charter business, though keeping away from running railtours since I don't think many other railtour operators will appreciate a company they use for traction starting taking their own business...

It's worth remembering that, up until a year or so ago, DRS had a small fleet of Mk.2 and Mk. 3 coaches - the Mk. 3s were disposed of to DB Regio, and most of the Mk. 2s are now at the Epping & Ongar Railway.

 

[junglejames]

Perhaps there is something else going on, what concerns me at the minute is that I still don't have my tickets for next weeks trip. I rang SRT on Tuesday and they said they are still waiting for confirmed timings from Network Rail, perhaps there is some issue between NR and WCR, or WCR and SRT? I know we are due to run on a Wednesday but normally we are given the timings outside of the two week window. :?

The Deltic to Fort William??
I will take a very wild guess (with some reasoning behind it), and say timings have been received, but most of the punters will not be happy with them, and so all parties concerned (WCRC, Spitfire and NR) are looking at sending the train to Oban instead!!
You can let me know when the official timings come through if I am right with the Oban idea!

 

[Phil6219]

Yep that's the one (and an interesting choice of traction I must admit). The original timings don't leave any room for "fiddling" in the sense of the train departs Crewe at 05:00 and arrives at Fort William at 14:00, leaves there at 15:30 and gets back to homeplate at 00:15.

A big issue that I can see with them timings is that we are due to stop in Motherwell at 08:55 and at that time in the morning I can imagine a lot of traffic wanting to get to Glasgow, another problem is Shap (having been looped there for an hour one Saturday - which really screwed the tour up, I can guess NR will happily loop us again) as we could (and probably will) get looped to let Glasgow bound expresses past, which is rather insulting as if we had a proper run up the Deltic could manage it at a fast enough speed, last time from a standing start we did it at 72 Mph. The problem would be that there is only an hour and a half stop at Fort William and a long period in the loop (unless already built into the timings) would put paid to that. Nor could the timings be changed to allow a slightly earlier or later start to the tour.

I really do hope we go all the way to FW and get some time there but I can see what you mean and understand it completely. Either way I will post the confirmed timings when I finally get them.

Phil