1S91 crash at Copmanthorpe near York - 1 fatality

[CallySleeper]

But how did you manage to get the information? I type 'COLTONJ' into it and it gives me a list of stations to choose from, and normally only stations are shown like that.

 

[Turbostar]

Ok, try this. Update from BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/5380110.stm

Police at the scene said half of the vehicle was still under the train half a mile away from where the accident happened.

Speaking beside the track, Inspector Graham Bridges, of British Transport Police, said it was a devastating high-speed impact.

He said investigations were at an early stage and officers did not know at that stage why the driver crashed through the fence.

Mart

 

[Turbostar]

Ok, so if the Police say the car left the road at Moor Lane, and ploughed through a fence onto the track, that must mean he/she was just about to cross the bridge then, & crashed through the fence instead?

Mart

 

[metrocammel]

But how did you manage to get the information? I type 'COLTONJ' into it and it gives me a list of stations to choose from, and normally only stations are shown like that.

the "magic" is in the url....

Ok, try this. Update from BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/5380110.stm

Mart

So it must have fallen off the bridge perhaps that "artificially rises" over the ECML (on one of the bridges that replaced loads of level crossing many years ago), as it is very flat round there, and I can't think of a road that goes close enough for someone to drive onto the tracks easily.

*EDIT*
I noticed Moor Lane was quite close, running parallel to the line, so it was probably a car driver coming home from the pub, or a boy racer driving at break-neck speeds along the straight stretch of road....

 

[Tom]

It has been established that the media will possibly be able to go onto the tracks (with no PTS!) within the next hour to view the train. The train is fully intact with all carriages in working order as all lights are on. There was a small "bump" but everyone remained calm. The BBC are incorrectly reporting the train as an Edinburgh - Plymouth train.

 

[Turbostar]

It's the 14.25 Plymouth to Edinburgh Waverley.

Mart

 

[CallySleeper]

This is what I think, using all the information (apologies for the crappy mspaint - my handwriting is better than this!)

 

[metrocammel]

It has been established that the media will possibly be able to go onto the tracks (with no PTS!) within the next hour to view the train. The train is fully intact with all carriages in working order as all lights are on. There was a small "bump" but everyone remained calm. The BBC are incorrectly reporting the train as an Edinburgh - Plymouth train.

Im sure the ITV news also described it as an Edinburgh - Plymouth train, which made me wonder why it was said the train would be braking for York!! But it is definately the other way round'!

 

[Turbostar]

I watched both BBC & ITV, but admit I didn't notice. Just shows how much I was paying attention lol.

Mart

 

[CallySleeper]

This is what I think, using all the information (apologies for the crappy mspaint - my handwriting is better than this!)

Is there any firm information to contradict this diagram?

 

[Turbostar]

In English please Mr B?

Mart

 

[yorkie]

Is there any firm information to contradict this diagram?

Well, you have the lines labelled slightly incorrectly (the lines are Dn Leeds, Up Leeds, Dn Main, Up Main, I believe - with the Mains being Normantons sth of Colton Jn), other than that, no there is nothing to contradict it, except to say that if you are correct it was surely a deliberate attempt to kill.

I'd like to think my theory is correct, as if someone did it deliberately that is unthinkable.

 

[TheSlash]

It has been established that the media will possibly be able to go onto the tracks (with no PTS!) within the next hour to view the train.

Did the Fire Brigade and Ambulance service staff have PTS
So explain why the press would need PTS? The line is totally blocked {trains stopped, power off} and they will be escorted at all times by trained staff

 

[Turbostar]

Guess we will just have to wait & hear what really happened, if we're lucky.

Mart

 

[CallySleeper]

I don't concur. What you suggest is possible - but that road is very minor, and very obviously leads nowhere. There is absolutely no way a car can have possibly been going at such a speed unless it was a very deliberate attempt to commit suicide and attempt murder of innocent people.

If they approached from Moor Lane heading north, then it is possible that they dozed off and failed to notice the curve, and kept accelerating through the barriers and onto the tracks. But the speed would be quite high to do that.

Very well possible - although 2 sets of fences and 2 lines to cross - it WOULD have to be going fast and not see the bend. But then, if it was deliberate, i.e. suicide then coming from the north would probably be a better bet as the road is closer to the line at that point.

There's nothing going against either theory, except that if was deliberate, I would wager the approach from the north would be taken as it looks more favourable, and that I don't have sufficent knowledge of the lines - i'm assuming here the second from left is the down main or fast.

 

[metrocammel]

Is there any firm information to contradict this diagram?

I think the description of "Moor Lane" is ambiguous though, as it appears the "old" route is over the tracks, but it has obviously been severed, as it is no longer a LC. I was assuming the train came off the "faster" Moor Lane, perhaps losing control on the cornering, however, as Yorkie said, the velocity of the car would have had to be immense to be able to "shoot" past all of the running lines to the furthest away line, unless of course the car wasn't right in the path of the train, and it was "clipped" by the Voyager? If it is the former, it adds to my theory that it is a "boy-racer" driving at stupid speeds down a dark country lane, and perhaps forgot / didn't know there was a corner there?

 

[yorkie]

Very well possible - although 2 sets of fences and 2 lines to cross - it WOULD have to be going fast and not see the bend. But then, if it was deliberate, i.e. suicide then coming from the north would probably be a better bet as the road is closer to the line at that point.

Maybe but how would the car know which line a train was due on? You could pick any line and a train would be there within a short time, usually - as all lines are busy.

There's nothing going against either theory, except that if was deliberate, I would wager the approach from the north would be taken as it looks more favourable, and that I don't have sufficent knowledge of the lines - i'm assuming here the second from left is the down main or fast.

No the 2nd from left is Down Leeds. The arrangement is Up Leeds, Dn Leeds, Up Main, Dn Main.

 

[theblackwatch]

If it is the former, it adds to my theory that it is a "boy-racer" driving at stupid speeds down a dark country lane, and perhaps forgot / didn't know there was a corner there?

I would concur with this view (to me it seems the most likely), although at this time we are all just speculating. Hopefully, the facts will be a bit clearer tomorrow. We should be grateful this didn't end up a much worse tragedy, which it could so easily have been.

 

[CallySleeper]

Maybe but how would the car know which line a train was due on?

It wouldn't

No the 2nd from left is Down Leeds. The arrangement is Up Leeds, Dn Leeds, Up Main, Dn Main.

Which line was the train on?

The train was apparently booked onto the down Leeds, so second from left. Also, the BBC article apparently said the car went through the one fence, spotlighting the northern approach.

Anyways, I must head now, I will wake up in the morning for the conclusion and more news on what actually did happen

 

[David]

I think the description of "Moor Lane" is ambiguous though, as it appears the "old" route is over the tracks, but it has obviously been severed, as it is no longer a LC. I was assuming the train came off the "faster" Moor Lane, perhaps losing control on the cornering, however, as Yorkie said, the velocity of the car would have had to be immense to be able to "shoot" past all of the running lines to the furthest away line, unless of course the car wasn't right in the path of the train, and it was "clipped" by the Voyager? If it is the former, it adds to my theory that it is a "boy-racer" driving at stupid speeds down a dark country lane, and perhaps forgot / didn't know there was a corner there?

Just to add to this, after looking at the Live Local image, to reach the line furthest away from the bend, first of all, the car would of had to plough through some vegitation (and it looks to be several meters deep). In order to miss the bend, go through the bushes/trees/hedges, and then cross 3 lines, the car must of been going at well over 100mph, probably closer to 200mph.

The reason for this is that bushes and hedges tend to be very good speed absorbers, unless you clip the top of them, in which case they will throw you in the air. As there are no reports of any other damage (IE to the running lines or OHLE), I find this is totally implausable, which is why I made my original comment.

 

[Tomnick]

It wouldn't

Which line was the train on?

The train was apparently booked onto the down Leeds, so second from left. Also, the BBC article apparently said the car went through the one fence, spotlighting the northern approach.

Anyways, I must head now, I will wake up in the morning for the conclusion and more news on what actually did happen

Second from left is Up Leeds - so not the one in question. Train was either on Down Leeds (left hand line - most likely) or Down Main (third from left).

Please - let's not speculate too much though. It's bad for everyone!

 

[theblackwatch]

A bit more on the BBC site at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/5380110.stm but doesn't confirm which side of the line the car entered from. It does state that the car was driven by a 55 year old local man, so the theory it was a boy racer obviously isn't true.

 

[metrocammel]

A bit more on the BBC site at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/north_yorkshire/5380110.stm but doesn't confirm which side of the line the car entered from. It does state that the car was driven by a 55 year old local man, so the theory it was a boy racer obviously isn't true.

But he could have been coming home from the pub though? I'm sure all will be revealed in time though.

 

[LucaZone]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but congrats to the Bombardier as the train didnt fall over. Id have thought at that speed the car would get mashed into the coupler area and the train would ride up and over it. Spelling disaster for the passengers as well. But it didnt. Stayed upright and only the front axle was derailed.

Something positive about a voyager for once Crash Worthiness

 

[voyagerdude220]

Not sure if anyone has mentioned it but congrats to the Bombardier as the train didnt fall over. Id have thought at that speed the car would get mashed into the coupler area and the train would ride up and over it. Spelling disaster for the passengers as well. But it didnt. Stayed upright and only the front axle was derailed.

Something positive about a voyager for once Crash Worthiness

Yay, a Voyager positively getting praise!

 

[yorkie]

More info here:

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/display....lled_in_rail_tragedy_at_copmanthorpe_york.php

The diesel train, which was on its way from Plymouth to Edinburgh, was forced off the line after the crash in Moor Lane, Copmanthorpe, at 8.55pm last night.

Miraculously none of the Virgin service's 74 passengers were injured in the collision, which happened on the East Coast Main Line.

Passengers froze in their seats as the train careered along the track for nearly two minutes, carrying the wreckage of the vehicle for up to a mile and a half, before coming to a sudden halt.

 

[CallySleeper]

Suicide?

Also, it quotes the road being a dead end.

 

[CallySleeper]

I'm sure all will be revealed in time though.

However, we may never know the full inclination of *why*.

This can only do the network bad. Stupid ******

 

[ChrisCooper]

Lets not speculate until we get the facts, we know very little so far and are just guessing. Remember, someone has died here, and just because they are nothing to do with the railway doesn't mean we shouldn't show some sympathy and not make some serious accusations about what they might have been doing (in particular the suicide thing). It might have just been a pure accident. How would you feel if it was a proper train crash and people were speculating the driver was acting reckless or worse committing suicide.
Anyway, just one thing from the BBC report that made me laugh, from a Virgin spokesman "Technically, we call that a derailment, and that gives the impression of the train being on its side." I don't know about anyone else, but derailment doesn't give the impression of a train on it's side to me, just that it's left the rails. Actually, derailments leading to trains going on their sides are very rare, which is lucky since they nearly always end with fatalities. Also, if the train left the track, even just one wheelset, it's a derailment, nothing technical about it. Then again, this spokesman probably knows very little about railways.

 

[yorkie]

Also, the train would not have been slowing down for York station and would normally have continued at 100mph for another 2.5 miles, the spokesman apparently doesn't know much about line speeds and braking distances.

We still don't know for certain which direction the car was travelling in, and which fence was breached.