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When it IS a Good Idea for Passengers to go on to the Track

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Mutant Lemming

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A thread futher down had me thinking of occasions when it IS advisable for passengers to go on to the track. I believe the term being in cases of Extreme Emergency (though I don't think the previous post came under that category).
For instance if you are on a stationary train and the carriage you are in is on fire I would consider that as an instance where you would be justified in clambering out and on to the tracks, albeit only briefly as an escape route.
There are (admittedly rare) occasions, the Southgate fire springs to mind, where breaking the rules is imperative to save life.
 
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ainsworth74

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For instance if you are on a stationary train and the carriage you are in is on fire I would consider that as an instance where you would be justified in clambering out and on to the tracks, albeit only briefly as an escape route.

Probably but only if it wasn't possible to exit to another carriage first.
 

Flamingo

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A thread futher down had me thinking of occasions when it IS advisable for passengers to go on to the track. I believe the term being in cases of Extreme Emergency (though I don't think the previous post came under that category).
For instance if you are on a stationary train and the carriage you are in is on fire I would consider that as an instance where you would be justified in clambering out and on to the tracks, albeit only briefly as an escape route.

That is about the only situation I can think of, if, as said by Ainsworth, lateral evacuation into another carriage is not an option.
 

First class

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I would personally be well out of a train, moving or not, for the extreme circumstance of terrorism on board.
 

deltic1989

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Probably but only if it wasn't possible to exit to another carriage first.

I would agree that side along evacuation would be the ideal first course of action, as there is the inherant risk of passengers clambering out the wrong side and getting creamed. But in the case of a fire on a 153 this may not be an option in the sceneario discribed. In which case I would agree that leaving the train would be the best way to avoid injury and preserve life. in this instance the train crew would be on hand to escort the passengers to a place of safety i.e. as far away from the track as is possable, and presumably the driver would have informed the signaller of the problem and all movements would be stopped to make evacuating passengers a safer process. This is all just my own opinion I have no experiance of how evacuations would be conducted if this situation were to arise, I do stand to be corrected if I have missed the mark.
 

Flamingo

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I would personally be well out of a train, moving or not, for the extreme circumstance of terrorism on board.

Depends on the situation, but that may be justified. Just remember you will be just as dead if hit by a train as if hit by a bullet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I would agree that side along evacuation would be the ideal first course of action, as there is the inherant risk of passengers clambering out the wrong side and getting creamed. But in the case of a fire on a 153 this may not be an option in the sceneario discribed. In which case I would agree that leaving the train would be the best way to avoid injury and preserve life. in this instance the train crew would be on hand to escort the passengers to a place of safety i.e. as far away from the track as is possable, and presumably the driver would have informed the signaller of the problem and all movements would be stopped to make evacuating passengers a safer process. This is all just my own opinion I have no experiance of how evacuations would be conducted if this situation were to arise, I do stand to be corrected if I have missed the mark.

Here you go, fill your boots! (Section 7 is the one you want)

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Rule_Boo...nts and Extreme Weather/GERT8000-M1 Iss 1.pdf
 
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Nonsense

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Whenever the track represents a refuge from something more dangerous.

Train on fire, axe wielding maniac on the platform. That type of thing.

Alternatively, if my child fell off the platform, see what happens if you tried to stop me jumping down after them.

There are valid reasons to be on the track, just all of them are exceptional situations.
 

First class

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Is there a certain amount of £50 notes on the tracks that anyone would honestly think of going down to get?

I can guarantee that if you didn't get down to gather them up, someone else would be doing so!

I've seen people go on for less than £5!
 

wensley

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I'd say that in the case of a fire on board then, wherever possible, you should try and move to the other part of the train. Internal sliding doors will hold back a fire (20mins for example on a 180 if I remember rightly) and the staff would be there to guide you in a safe manner.

In a lot of cases its a case of not being aware of dangers: would you be aware of the directions of train movements, limited clearances, electrification etc etc if you were to leave the train?

An evacuation takes a lot of thought and not something a control would authorise until all other options had run out, obviously there are some circumstances when an evacuation is needed but in a controlled manner wherever possible.

Axe wielding manic...that ever common threat on British stations :p
The trackside is certainly not a 'refuge' and is pretty high on my list of dangerous environments...

May I also ask if your child is regularly in a position in which they can fall onto the track? If so I suggest you keep them back from the platform edge ;) You jumping onto the track and injuring yourself would only worsen the situation.

I am repeating what was said yesterday: the railway is not a safe environment for humans, only certified staff should go on or about the line in accordance with their duties. 99.9% it is out of the question that a member of public should be trackside, only truly exceptional circumstances would merit such action. Simple as that - I'm sure that many others will also take this stance!
 

O L Leigh

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Is there a certain amount of £50 notes on the tracks that anyone would honestly think of going down to get?

I can guarantee that if you didn't get down to gather them up, someone else would be doing so!

I've seen people go on for less than £5!

Due to the sightlines from inside the train the passengers would be blissfully unaware of their presence.

However, the driver might quietly excuse himself for a few moments to, um, speak to the signaller on an SPT and advise him of the hazard. He might even be instructed to do whatever he can to remove the hazard.

O L Leigh
 

wensley

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Is there a certain amount of £50 notes on the tracks that anyone would honestly think of going down to get?

I can guarantee that if you didn't get down to gather them up, someone else would be doing so!

I've seen people go on for less than £5!

You're probably right, but its not a good idea for you to be there!
Trains won't stop running to let you get at some cash.
A lass lost her iPhone off the platform at Northallerton, no chance that the phone could be recovered with trains running, even by a member of the station staff. That's another point - lost property would not class as a good reason either.
 

michael769

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When would I go trackside?

When the trainmanager and and driver leap from the carriage with their clothes and hair on fire.
 

wensley

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Due to the sightlines from inside the train the passengers would be blissfully unaware of their presence.

However, the driver might quietly excuse himself for a few moments to, um, speak to the signaller on an SPT and advise him of the hazard. He might even be instructed to do whatever he can to remove the hazard.

O L Leigh

Well...only doing the right thing after all ;)
Signaller may want a cut as well!
 

telstarbox

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Is there a certain amount of £50 notes on the tracks that anyone would honestly think of going down to get?

I can guarantee that if you didn't get down to gather them up, someone else would be doing so!

I've seen people go on for less than £5!

In my youth I went onto the track for... a tennis ball. On third rail track. When the Eurostars still went through Tonbridge. Older and wiser!
 

Mutant Lemming

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Of course the overwhelming majority of the time it is imperative to keep away from the track but there are those odd occasions where you have to assess a situation and think outside the box.

If a serious arc melts the centre of the tube train you are on, creating intense heat and filling the cars with acrid smoke are you going to wait to be told to scarper or are you going to clamber out of the back of the train in to a single track tube tunnel heading towards oncoming traffic ?
 

150222

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You're probably right, but its not a good idea for you to be there!
Trains won't stop running to let you get at some cash.
A lass lost her iPhone off the platform at Northallerton, no chance that the phone could be recovered with trains running, even by a member of the station staff. That's another point - lost property would not class as a good reason either.

Now that is when I would go on the track! Also I have fallen onto the track 10-12 years ago. Fortunately the train had just left and I was waving good-bye to it. (As little kids do) :) Additionally I have jumped down onto the trackside at the end of the platform (not the track) to fetch my coursework! (Long story. Had a terrible headache at the time!)
 

Tim R-T-C

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A lass lost her iPhone off the platform at Northallerton, no chance that the phone could be recovered with trains running, even by a member of the station staff. That's another point - lost property would not class as a good reason either.

Did the staff not have a grabber? Saw one of the staff at Keighley using one earlier on what looked like a mobile phone dropped by the tracks, it was one of those long handled grabbers similar to what street cleaners use to pick up rubbish. Would make sense to make these standard issue.
 

wensley

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Did the staff not have a grabber? Saw one of the staff at Keighley using one earlier on what looked like a mobile phone dropped by the tracks, it was one of those long handled grabbers similar to what street cleaners use to pick up rubbish. Would make sense to make these standard issue.
Yes, but not permitted to use it. A sackable offence I'm informed due to the linespeed and obvious risks, althought with care they would only be slight.

As for the coursework example, definitely not a GOOD reason, you couldve been prosecuted.
 

Sapphire Blue

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In my youth I went onto the track for... a tennis ball. On third rail track. When the Eurostars still went through Tonbridge. Older and wiser!

Late 1960's/very early '70's.

At Paddock Cricket club (just west out of Huddersfiled) as small boys we were quietly encouraged, by the un-official promise of 6d for the finder, to recover six-hit cricket balls from the then 4-tracked trans-pennine line.
Handsfull of us would scramble down the rocky cutting racing to earn the reward.

Madness - complete and utter madness.
 

Smethwickian

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Yes, but not permitted to use it. A sackable offence I'm informed due to the linespeed and obvious risks, althought with care they would only be slight.

As for the coursework example, definitely not a GOOD reason, you couldve been prosecuted.

About two months ago I was on a London Midland Snow Hill lines service towards Worcester during the morning peak, very busy with pupils heading for Hagley RC High School (people in the Black Country and Worcestershire will know how many pupils that attracts from far and wide).

After decanting scores of youngsters at Hagley there appeared to be some sort of kerfuffle on the platform, followed by the conductor and driver conflabbing on the platform and making several mobile phone calls. The conductor then informed passengers over the PA that a distressed girl had dropped her bag on alighting and we were awaiting permission (presumably from the signaller) for staff to retrieve it.

Cue some tutting and huffing from some passengers until, after about five or six mins altogether, the train drew forward a few yards, halted again, the items were presumably retrieved, and the train set off on its way again. I didn't see whether the staff needed to get on the track or used some other means to reach them.

Now in these circumstances I think staff did exactly the right thing. Yes, it was just schoolwork, and children should of course be more careful in the first place.

But there appeared to be no staff at Hagley that morning (the ticket office looked closed to me) so, just ask yourself, what would a bunch of unsupervised teenagers have done if they'd been left on the platform and told "tough, the bag stays where it is" ? Exactly. The chance no child would chance it when the train had gone was probably rather small, and then what would have happened?

At least the pupil(s) assisted that morning would have learned to take more care, realised the disruption potentially caused, and that any incident of its kind should only ever be dealt with by appropriate staff or authorities.
 

142094

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Yes, but not permitted to use it. A sackable offence I'm informed due to the linespeed and obvious risks, althought with care they would only be slight.

As for the coursework example, definitely not a GOOD reason, you couldve been prosecuted.

Depends what TOC, and their regs. Someone dropped a handbag at an ECML station, the platform staff got in touch with the signallers to see if anything was due then retrived the bag with a litter picker.
 

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This is one of the types of question that pops up from time to time that has no satisfactory answer, because the subject is completely polarized.

The official position is that there never would be a situation when a passenger should go onto the track per se, because there are a whole variety of hazards that would be present. It is also illegal.

That said, like all things in life nothing is ever black and white. Going onto the track in a suburban area would almost certainly be fraught with dangers, whilst doing the same on a little used branch line would certainly be less so. UNLESS of course the location on the branch line was on a curve with restricted viewing and trains travelling at say 90 mph, as opposed to a suburban station where there are no Conductor rails and plenty of sighting with a 45 mph speed limit.

Straight away it will be seen that there can be many variables, even the presence of busy roads, motorways, noisy factories, airports or airfields will have an impact on whether it is safe to be there or not.

Venturing onto the track in order to render assistance to someone in danger is an emotive subject, however best counsel is to contact the staff at a manned station as a matter of urgency.

In the event that a train can be seen approaching in the far distance or there are no staff then it could be argued that it would be a reasonable action to do something to assist. In doing so however one should always be aware that conditions on the Railway can change in a matter fo moments, and going down into the track between facing platforms can be likened to playing Russian Roullette.

If you are caught in the platform area then there really is NO way out, especially as it is far more difficult to climb back onto a platform than most people would assume to be the case, and many fatalities have occurred because of that.

From a lifetime of experience, which includes dealing with fatalities to people who were walking or crossing the track without any intention of causing themselves harm, I would counsel that only in the most dire of circumstances would it ever be advisable to go onto the track.

The better option is to call 999 and ask the Police to contact Network Rail or other infrastructure owner to have the trains stopped. This should certainly be the very FIRST course of action before entering forward into any heroics, many people have died through want of thinking things through when having gone to rescue a person who has ultimately survived whilst the rescuer has not.

In the case of a fire on a train, then the first course of action is to ALWAYS move away from the fire to other vehicles , the very, very LAST thing to do should be to force the doors open and exit onto the track.

In the case of belongings dropped onto the track at an unmanned station, it is better to wait for the train to arive and report the matter to the Guard or Driver.
 

wensley

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Yeh, TPE staff at Northallerton say their instructions are clear, unfortunate for clumsy passengers!

Of course the last resort, as laid out in the rule book is to lie in the 6 foot and keep hold of loose items of clothing as the train passes, not that a passenger would be aware of this and a train bearing down you is likely to induce utter panic! I wouldn't be very keen on trying it...even if people have survived...
 

142094

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Probably different at Northallerton due to the fact that some services are non-stop (and fast as well). The station I'm talking about sees all but one service stop there...
 

wensley

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Probably different at Northallerton due to the fact that some services are non-stop (and fast as well). The station I'm talking about sees all but one service stop there...

Quite, although arguable the sighting at Northallerton makes it about as safe as you could ever be performing such an action. Still, no risks can be taken at 125
 

amcluesent

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But it's still OK to put a penny on the rail and recover it after it's been squished by an HST set?

But supposing you lost control of your car and it crashed over a parapet onto the track? It would surely be better to struggle out the car and onto the track (briefly), rather hang about in the car?
 
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Flamingo

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Well, I suppose if you were flying at 30 000 feet in your Tornado jet, and you had a huge birdstrike, and your plane blew up, and you ejected, and were badly injured and coming down on your parachute, and were blinded by the crash and couldn't see where you were landing and landed on the track it would be ok. :lol:

Any more outlandish situations? :roll:
 
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