Denton and Reddish South

[scarby]

Both these stations are notorious for the once a week "ghost train" service.

Both are in urban, well-populated areas and would surely attract passengers?

Both have considerable support from "friends" groups, raising the above issue.

Both stations are in good condition, and reading the Denton friends page, I now see SEVEN WEEKS of work has taken place to refurbish the platform. Think how much money in materials and labour this must cost!

Think also how much money is spent on new station signs, timetable posters, etc.

Clearly keeping the stations ship-shape is a very good thing; but to actually make this all worthwhile, surely it cannot be beyond the wit of man to actually restore some sort of proper service?

 

[Bevan Price]

I think the only viable service would be from Stockport, Reddish South & Denton to Manchester Victoria, rather than Stalybridge. However, even if somebody wanted to run such a service, the "experts" say there are not enough available paths at Heaton Norris Junction to run a regular service.

 

[Lampshade]

...the "experts" say there are not enough available paths at Heaton Norris Junction to run a regular service.

Which I find hard to believe, if the 0922 can run without conflicting with anything, it can run every hour at xx22. There are plenty of paths through Ashton Moss Junction so running from Denton - Victoria won't be a problem.

 

[Eagle]

Which I find hard to believe, if the 0922 can run without conflicting with anything, it can run every hour at xx22. There are plenty of paths through Ashton Moss Junction so running from Denton - Victoria won't be a problem.

How many units would an hourly Victoria to Stockport service need? One or two?

 

[Ivo]

How many units would an hourly Victoria to Stockport service need? One or two?

By the time you allow for the reversal at Guide Bridge I would think that 30 minutes each way including layover would be asking too much.

Of course, I may be wrong, especially if something can be done about line speeds. Could always extend to Hazel Grove or similar to justify using two units.

 

[Eagle]

By the time you allow for the reversal at Guide Bridge...

It wouldn't need to reverse at Guide Bridge...

Victoria - Ashton - Stalybridge (reverse) - Guide Bridge - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport

or (better)

Victoria - (freight line paralleling the M60) - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport

 

[Lampshade]

How many units would an hourly Victoria to Stockport service need? One or two?

Stockport - Denton is 9 minutes so provided it can get to Victoria and turn round in 21 minutes (doable, Ashton - Victoria is only ten minutes), it'll only need one unit.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

There are plenty of buses from Denton to Manchester which are all well patronised. They even used to have trolley buses on this route at one time (when I was young)...:roll:

The 201 service from Denton (Crown Point) to Manchester Piccadilly Gardens runs every 10 minutes during the main part of the day, with a scheduled time of 32 minutes, which allows for every stop en route.

 

[Tomnick]

Victoria - Ashton - Guide Bridge - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport
via the curve west of Stalybridge.

Almost! Denton Jn to Ashton Moss North Jn doesn't take you through Guide Bridge or Ashton stations.

If a proposed service did reverse at Stalybridge though, I suspect there'd be potential to operate it either as an extension of existing services terminating there, or to provide additional capacity between Stalybridge and Vic. The former ought to be easily possible with just one additional unit.

 

[Ivo]

It wouldn't need to reverse at Guide Bridge...

Victoria - Ashton - Stalybridge (reverse) - Guide Bridge - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport

or (better)

Victoria - Ashton - Guide Bridge - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport
via the curve west of Stalybridge.

I can't see a curve west of Stalybridge (in my AZ map). I can see one that runs from a point between Denton and Guide Bridge and the Ashton to Victoria route, but using this line would still require a parly as they would be a dud section between the Denton junction and Guide Bridge.

Basically what Tomnick said. The Parly would still be an issue though.

 

[Lampshade]

...but using this line would still require a parly as they would be a dud section between the Denton junction and Guide Bridge.

Surely plenty of freight would still use that curve?

 

[Eagle]

...but using this line would still require a parly as they would be a dud section between the Denton junction and Guide Bridge.

Would it really need a parly? There have been loads of curves that have lost all passenger service without getting a parly. Didcot North to Foxhall springs to mind.

If it does, just run one service a day via Guide Bridge and Stalybridge (wouldn't even need to call at Ashton) and you might even be able to squeeze this into an hourly timetable.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Many "specials" use this line for railtours on a regular basis.

 

[Eagle]

And of course Alliance's Euston to Bradford service would use it... if it ever materializes.

 

[northwichcat]

I think the only viable service would be from Stockport, Reddish South & Denton to Manchester Victoria, rather than Stalybridge. However, even if somebody wanted to run such a service, the "experts" say there are not enough available paths at Heaton Norris Junction to run a regular service.

Network Rail have suggested Stockport-Victoria should be included as part of the Northern Hub. They are suggesting a through service beyond Stockport to avoid reversals at Stockport. They are also recommending an additional hourly service between Greenbank and Stockport and say the possibility of the two being joined up should be looked at.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Stockport - Denton is 9 minutes so provided it can get to Victoria and turn round in 21 minutes (doable, Ashton - Victoria is only ten minutes), it'll only need one unit.

And how would it be able to arrive at Stockport and terminate and then leave Stockport on the next northbound service within less than one minute?

 

[Eagle]

And how would it be able to arrive at Stockport and terminate and then leave Stockport on the next northbound service within less than one minute?

Denton to Victoria should only take 13-14 minutes max, leaving an end-to-end journey time of 22-23 minutes, leaving 7-8 minutes for turnaround at each end.

 

[northwichcat]

Denton to Victoria should only take 13-14 minutes max, leaving an end-to-end journey time of 22-23 minutes, leaving 7-8 minutes for turnaround at each end.

That'll mean the timetabled journey time (including recovery time) will be around 26 minutes.

Also, will it slow down when TPE services get sent to Victoria and get priority over local services?

 

[Eagle]

Also, will it slow down when TPE services get sent to Victoria and get priority over local services?

Hmm. That's complicated. Where's Nym when you need him? :P

 

[Nym]

Of course, one could just terminate at Reddish North rather than running to Stockport and that would solve the problems of getting in and out of Stockport, perhaps even have 2tph on the route?

Since we need to find somewhere to send the westward terminating services into Victoria onto, perhaps Reddish or Stockport via Reddish could serve this purpouse?

 

[185]

or (better)

Victoria - (freight line paralleling the M60) - Denton - Reddish South - Stockport

....which would allow new stations to at last be built on the Ashton line between Ashton and Newton Heath - may also be scope for a P&R by the M60 just west of Ashton town centre.

Are TfGM interested in rail though? :roll:

 

[Nym]

Are TfGM interested in rail though? :roll:

No!

I think the biggest potential P&R and Interchange on the route would be Ashton Moss, Interchange with Metrolink, and P&R into Victoria.

With very little work it would be possible to send 4tph from Bolton or Atherton down that way (the diesel services that terminate in victoria) to remove these terminating services. With the EMU services sodding off to Stalybridge.

 

[Eagle]

Are TfGM interested in rail though? :roll:

If it didn't involve some strategic freight lines, I'd be half tempted to give Ashton to Stockport over to Metrolink.

 

[Lampshade]

....which would allow new stations to at last be built on the Ashton line between Ashton and Newton Heath - may also be scope for a P&R by the M60 just west of Ashton town centre.

Are TfGM interested in rail though? :roll:

And passengers from Ashton could change there for Stockport, like your thinking

 

[150222]

No!

I think the biggest potential P&R and Interchange on the route would be Ashton Moss, Interchange with Metrolink, and P&R into Victoria.

With very little work it would be possible to send 4tph from Bolton or Atherton down that way (the diesel services that terminate in victoria) to remove these terminating services. With the EMU services sodding off to Stalybridge.

Exept that 1tph continues past Victoria to Rochdale!

 

[Nym]

Just looked at this a bit more...

How about...

2 tracking the route throughout
2 or 3 bay platforms at Reddish South (North Facing)
Ashton Moss: New station, for P&R and Interchange with Metrolink.

Now working from the current timetable and some guesswork.

Liverpool - Victoria 2tph will run onwards to Stalybridge (EMU)
EMU Services from Bolton run onto Stalybridge (1/2tph)
DMU Services from Bolton (Wigan via Bolton 2tph and Clitheroe via Bolton 1tph extended onwards to Reddish South via Ashton Moss & Denton)
DMU Services from Atherton (2tph) extended onwards to Reddish South via Denton

That gives 5tph between Manchester and Reddish, perhaps 1tph of these can be extended onwards to Stockport. Takes care of the problems of terminating services from the West in Victoria.

 

[Ivo]

That gives 5tph between Manchester and Reddish, perhaps 1tph of these can be extended onwards to Stockport. Takes care of the problems of terminating services from the West in Victoria.

From 1tpw to 5tph? That's some improvement!

Given Denton has two platforms anyway, couldn't you operate a half-hourly service that involves trains passing there? The timings would be a tad tight towards Victoria, but that could be solved as the rest of you have suggested by extending current services. Also, is there any room at Stockport for a north-facing bay, or otherwise does one already exist? If not, could the service terminate at Cheadle Hulme?

 

[Eagle]

Rather a lot of services terminating at Reddish South there (four an hour)... would there be adequate space to do that with two platforms?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

From 1tpw to 5tph? That's some improvement!

An approximately 500-fold increase in service.

 

[northwichcat]

Hmm. That's complicated. Where's Nym when you need him? :P

Nym's plans are usually very different to TfGMs and Network Rails.

That gives 5tph between Manchester and Reddish,

There are some platforms available for terminating services from the East, but not from the West without using a through platform, so not every service from the East needs to terminate at Victoria.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

....which would allow new stations to at last be built on the Ashton line between Ashton and Newton Heath - may also be scope for a P&R by the M60 just west of Ashton town centre.

I see you have come up with a new use for Brewery Junction. There have been stations in the past at Newton Heath, Park, Clayton Bridge and Droylsden on the route you have chosen, but surely the line from Miles Platting Junction to Ashton will be carrying the current TPE North services once the Ordsall Chord is fully functional.

 

[Eagle]

....which would allow new stations to at last be built on the Ashton line between Ashton and Newton Heath - may also be scope for a P&R by the M60 just west of Ashton town centre.

Such a park-and-ride is already proposed at the Metrolink station at Ashton West on Lord Sheldon Way... and it's right on top of the railway line too. Would be a good place to slap down some platforms, eh?

From Metrolink's website: