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Virgin drivers pay proposal
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michael769
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To be blunt if this is the subject an ongoing negotiations, it should not be discussed on a public internet forum.
Alan1310
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Why not its in the public domain already
From what I have been told by a friend at virgin they basically want to end pretty much all existing agreements and buy back most conditions. I believe the most severe is that they want to end the booking on allowance and end being paid when pass-in other words if a Manchester driver is spare they could be asked to cover a London job and so would need to travel from Manchester to London in their own time, perhaps drive London-Manchester and back and then get back to Manchester in their own time, even if they have missed the last train home.
They also want to bring Sundays inside the week and end road refresh days in the roster I believe.
As far as I know it is being rejected.
scotraildriver
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This months ASLEF journal states Virgin have accepted this years offer at 90 odd percent in favour. No idea what it was though.
notadriver
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Current trends suggest otherwise. Train drivers salaries have increased year on year and at a greater % increase than other industries. At the same time days off have increased and the working week has been reduced.
SteamPower
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It doesn't seem worth it in the long term, for how long it probably took to secure those agreements and conditions. Once they are gone they are going to be very hard to get back. A big pay rise isn't the be all and end all, especially when on the kind of wage they are already earning. (Not an attack on drivers wages by any means)
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notadriver
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Anything earnt above roughly 42k will be taxed at 40 percent. How do airline pilots on 80-100k+ manage their affairs? I'm guessing they can be paid offshore and avoid taxes that way ?
SkinnyDave
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Is there a bank in Necker Island?? 
Cherry_Picker
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£67k?
What are they currently on? The ASLEF website says they were on £49,620 for fiscal year 2012/13. I presume they have had at least one rise since that figure was published, but £67k? I can't even comprehend how they would negotiate such a jump. More information is needed.
What are they currently on? The ASLEF website says they were on £49,620 for fiscal year 2012/13. I presume they have had at least one rise since that figure was published, but £67k? I can't even comprehend how they would negotiate such a jump. More information is needed.
By offering them more money they are buying terms and conditions off them as I stated in my earlier post which will long term save the company more money. Drivers pay rises are not money for nothing. They are negotiated, not demanded and in order to get a pay rise above inflation rates drivers will need to 'sell' something back to the company. Often this is something less noticeable than the virgin proposals-an increase in diagrammed mileage or a review of some kind of time consuming working practice which will allow long term saving to the company.
For example our last pay rise at FCC was slightly above inflation but infact the company took briefing days out of the Sunday roster and into the week roster. Therefore anyone who dosnt work overtime and only works their booked Sundays will see a slight overall reduction in pay as they will now be working less Sundays. This has in some ways benefitted the company more than the drivers.
So TOCs are certainly not paying more and getting nothing in return like you suggest.
As I say, and I appreciate my info is second hand, they certainly arnt getting a huge pay rise for nothing. It basically ends all previous agreements from historical pay negotiations giving virgin a blank canvass with terms and conditions and allowing them far more flexibility at the drivers expense. Looking at it, drivers would likely find themselves worse off long term with this as diagrams could essentially be started from scratch. Plus obviously this brings their Sundays inside the week so that alone is worth a few grand.
Cherry_Picker
Established Member
Yeah, I re read the thread after posting my initial reaction. I'll stop short of saying that West Coast are asking drivers to sell their soul, but they certainly want ownership of their lives.
Could the really ask somebody to pass from Manchester to London in their own time, do a Euston job, pass home and then book on the next day for a normal job while simultaneously preaching about driver fatigue?
Could the really ask somebody to pass from Manchester to London in their own time, do a Euston job, pass home and then book on the next day for a normal job while simultaneously preaching about driver fatigue?
tbtc
Veteran Member
It really depends on what we are talking here:
Is £67k:
- The average salary for doing contracted hours
- The average salary for total hours worked in a year (i.e. inc Sunday/ overtime)
- The total benefits package (inc pension contributions etc)
The three may be very different figures
Something I'd like to see, but don't expect to happen
whoosh
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This is old news.
Firstly, I believe the offer during pay talks was £63,000 not £67,000, and secondly this involved a great number of changes to terms and conditions.
In the event, further negotiations took place and the company dropped the changes to terms and conditions and offered 3.3% (the same as January's RPI figure) to be backdated to March 31st 2013.
ASLEF held a referendum amongst the drivers at Virgin, and with the majority voting yes, the 3.3% was accepted.
The ASLEF site can often be out of date, but Virgin West Coast drivers are now on around £51-£53k. A little bit less than Cross Country.
Firstly, I believe the offer during pay talks was £63,000 not £67,000, and secondly this involved a great number of changes to terms and conditions.
In the event, further negotiations took place and the company dropped the changes to terms and conditions and offered 3.3% (the same as January's RPI figure) to be backdated to March 31st 2013.
ASLEF held a referendum amongst the drivers at Virgin, and with the majority voting yes, the 3.3% was accepted.
The ASLEF site can often be out of date, but Virgin West Coast drivers are now on around £51-£53k. A little bit less than Cross Country.
westcoaster
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But only affected the GN side as training days are already in the working week on the TL side, so earning an extra days pay for something your others got nothing for! Makes no sence really lol.
Usual story then. Company demands major changes to T&C's, in exchange for money. After negotiations, something sensible is worked out. Meantime, everything gets blown out off all proportion, by messroom gossip!
As ever, these jobs are there for the getting. Efforts would be better directed to developing the required skills, rather than posting envy threads on the internet.
Not sure anyone is posting from the point of view of being envious? Only curious to know what the conditions are.
(Not that I'd turn someone down who offered me a drivers salary
)Posting envy threads? I have the required skills thank you, I am a driver for another TOC. Am I not allowed to clarify the detail of a pay proposal of another company?
What a bizarre comment
notadriver
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I thought you've just started training and are therefore a trainee driver new to the job?
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notadriver
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Compared with 15 or 20 years ago productivity has increased steadily. All trains have one driver where before there were second men etc and whilst modern traction has made the drivers job easier, the intensity of the modern day railway with increased numbers of signals and services, a greater emphasis on timekeeping and the advent of TPWS and driving polices have to me meant the job is a very different to the one of the past. Keeping high calibre, professional drivers means salaries have to be attractive - in my opinion.
Pay the maximum into your pension and get 40% tax relief on that amount that will take care of about £5,500 over the 42K
Maybe I can help clear things up. The OP's question relates to a productivity deal offered by Virgin just before the franchise was 'won' by first. Nothing come of it. The pay deal that has just been accepted was a fairly straightforward pay deal with a few other things, but nothing on the scale of the productivity offer. Pay is £53.7k.
Also good to see that some self appointed experts on here also think the job has got easier when they have only ever seen a cab from a platform or a youtube video. try getting up at 1.30am to do a job and work at 100% knowing that everything gets logged and scrutinized, and I mean everything. The detail on a download is incredible. That didn't happen in the good old days.
Also good to see that some self appointed experts on here also think the job has got easier when they have only ever seen a cab from a platform or a youtube video. try getting up at 1.30am to do a job and work at 100% knowing that everything gets logged and scrutinized, and I mean everything. The detail on a download is incredible. That didn't happen in the good old days.
313103
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And of course getting paid extra to do my job. Many Drivers moan about DOO, but when three silver coins are passed across the palm of your hand by the company they are soon snapped up. I have had the MD of my company going round and telling Drivers they will be better off without guards on there trains, and of course many of the newer drivers believe that will be the case.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I am not driver, so I cant comment on the amount of stuff being downloaded, but drivers are not the ones who have stuff downloaded, I have to do my job with the knowledge of knowing cctv cameras are watching my every move. Many staff have been brought to book when downloading data for a driver they find something the Guard has done or not done in accordance with the rules and regulations, they are then brought to book.
I am afraid it is also the culture now where staff freely report each other because of the fear of being caught when stuff is downloaded. As for me I have yet to report anything and by the time I leave this industry will never have done.
As for the salary that is none of my business, if a company is prepared to pay you a lot of money then so be it, I wouldn't say No if my company paid me large amounts of money and no human being in the world would reject it either.
What do we expect when a train service is operated by private companies within the constraints of such a failed business model as we have? Everything other than profit is a target for compromisation. Guards perform a vital safety role as well as offering passengers help, advice and some reassurance at night and in less desirable areas. Like many things in life, their worth only becomes apparent after they are gone.
Inter city work used to be double manned by two drivers, certainly for 125 MPH running.
The way I look at it, what someone else gets paid, and what they have to do for it, is their business. If the package sounds attractive, put in for the job, find out the details first hand, and decide if it is for you.
Captain Chaos
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Indeed. I don't really care what other people get paid or what they generally do to get it. If they can get paid big money for doing what people might see as not a lot then good luck to you!
I find it perplexing and rather annoying when people question me and say that I am paid far too much as a Conductor for 'just checking tickets'. I am employed because at the present moment in time the company has a use for my services in that particular role and are paying me a salary that they have set for those services. I applied like anyone else, was deemed to be what they were looking for and was hired. I signed a contract, I do a job, I get paid. Just like anyone else. So I don't see the problem!
Drivers wages havnt risen as fast as has been made out. The job in terms of conditions and pay structure has changed quite a bit. Unions suggest they have done a good job in increasing our salaries but to be honest not as much of it comes down to them as they may suggest.
Under BR there were numerous pay enhancements on the basic wage which no longer exist. Drivers were paid extra for things like mileage, DOO working, 'anti social shifts', Saturdays, Sundays (I know some companies still do pay extra for Sundays but not all) etc. Over time all of that has been put into the basic wage so that hasn't so much increased drivers salaries but just incorporated it into the total figure rather than drivers earning a basic wage plus lots of extras.
There is now competition between companies and the started a big increase in pay. Companies found out that it was far cheaper to poach other companies drivers than to pay training costs themselves. In order to attract drivers to their company they needed to increase their own pay. To compete other TOCs have had to increase their pay to and even now some of the less well paid TOCs loose a high number of drivers to better paid neighbours. There is a steady flow of GA drivers based at Cambridge moving over to FCCs cambridge depot simply because our money and conditions are superior.
Under BR there were numerous pay enhancements on the basic wage which no longer exist. Drivers were paid extra for things like mileage, DOO working, 'anti social shifts', Saturdays, Sundays (I know some companies still do pay extra for Sundays but not all) etc. Over time all of that has been put into the basic wage so that hasn't so much increased drivers salaries but just incorporated it into the total figure rather than drivers earning a basic wage plus lots of extras.
There is now competition between companies and the started a big increase in pay. Companies found out that it was far cheaper to poach other companies drivers than to pay training costs themselves. In order to attract drivers to their company they needed to increase their own pay. To compete other TOCs have had to increase their pay to and even now some of the less well paid TOCs loose a high number of drivers to better paid neighbours. There is a steady flow of GA drivers based at Cambridge moving over to FCCs cambridge depot simply because our money and conditions are superior.
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