Devon problems

Goatboy · 5 Dec 2013

Chaps,

Whats going on in Devon this evening? Reported as poor rail conditions but some of the delays are insane..

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P00151/2013/12/05

NRES now reporting 100 minute delays due to poor rail conditions near Newton Abbot, it must be very very serious to cause problems like that?

RailUK Forums

richw · 5 Dec 2013

This has been a recurring issue for almost 2 weeks now. Trains are getting stuck on the bank between Totnes and Newton Abbot.

Captain Chaos · 5 Dec 2013

Worst affected seems to be the 16:06 Paddington to Penzance at the moment. Poor Rail Conditions through Dainton Tunnel in both directions appears to be the cause.

Goatboy · 5 Dec 2013

richw said:
This has been a recurring issue for almost 2 weeks now. Trains are getting stuck on the bank between Totnes and Newton Abbot.

Captain Chaos said:
Worst affected seems to be the 16:06 Paddington to Penzance at the moment. Poor Rail Conditions through Dainton Tunnel in both directions appears to be the cause.

This looks like a different issue as the huge delays are being picked up around Teignmouth.

Captain Chaos · 5 Dec 2013

Goatboy said:
This looks like a different issue as the huge delays are being picked up around Teignmouth.

That's what has been messaged out. Says they are having problems at Dainton Tunnel between Newton Abbot and Totnes. Service is being run back to Teignmouth for another run up. Might be why it's showing the delay to be there?

Pacerpilot · 6 Dec 2013

Network Rail are not laying sandite this year, just jetting. And this the the result.

455driver · 6 Dec 2013

The problems were getting up Dainton bank, they were not getting to the tunnel.

Hemerdon bank has been an issue as well.

brillopad · 6 Dec 2013

And so it goes on...

14:06 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:33 This train has been delayed at Bodmin Parkway and is now 31 minutes late.
This is due to poor rail conditions earlier. Message Received :06/12/2013 18:43

KA4C · 6 Dec 2013

Goatboy said:
This looks like a different issue as the huge delays are being picked up around Teignmouth.

16.06 Padd to PZ got stuck on Dainton bank due to getting stopped on the bank behind a late running XC service, it eventually went bang road to Newton Abbot and then on to Teignmouth in order to get a run at the bank without a stop at NA. In the meantime, however another XC service was sent from a standing start at NA up the bank and got stuck although it did manage to get to the tunnel eventually. The delays shown at Teignmouth were due to both the 16.06 ex Padd and 17.03 ex Padd both waiting at the station at the same time waiting for the down line over the bank to become clear. the 16.06 eventually making it to PZ somewhat late

Woody · 7 Dec 2013

KA4C said:
16.06 Padd to PZ got stuck on Dainton bank due to getting stopped on the bank behind a late running XC service, it eventually went bang road to Newton Abbot and then on to Teignmouth in order to get a run at the bank without a stop at NA. In the meantime, however another XC service was sent from a standing start at NA up the bank and got stuck although it did manage to get to the tunnel eventually. The delays shown at Teignmouth were due to both the 16.06 ex Padd and 17.03 ex Padd both waiting at the station at the same time waiting for the down line over the bank to become clear. the 16.06 eventually making it to PZ somewhat late

I was on the 1506 ex Paddington from Exeter to Plymouth which when it arrived at Exeter was already 30 minutes because of "poor rail conditions" according to the train manager. However 30 minutes delay became 50 minutes delay by Plymouth as we barely made it up Rattery bank after stopping at Totnes and 50 minutes became 77 minutes in Cornwall by the time the train reached Penzance.

KA4C · 7 Dec 2013

Woody said:
I was on the 1506 ex Paddington from Exeter to Plymouth which when it arrived at Exeter was already 30 minutes because of "poor rail conditions" according to the train manager. However 30 minutes delay became 50 minutes delay by Plymouth as we barely made it up Rattery bank after stopping at Totnes and 50 minutes became 77 minutes in Cornwall by the time the train reached Penzance.

Yeah, I was on the 16.06

starrymarkb · 14 Dec 2013

Lots of slipping today, especially departing Totnes in both directions

Whistler40145 · 14 Dec 2013

Has someone at Network Rail got a screw loose?

Why the heck would they remove the requirement to apply Sandite on the South Devon Banks, especially when trains are struggling?

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

The Planner · 14 Dec 2013

I've no doubt that questions will be asked come Monday when the delay minute figures are totted up.

scotraildriver · 14 Dec 2013

Not sure of the areas down there but here is Scotland Network rail are actually increasing sandite using automatic applicators which apply sandite as the train passes over. They are on the approaches to problem stations and gradients and they do work very well. (Except in good weather when you slide on the sandite instead!)

crewmeal · 14 Dec 2013

In the old days they had bankers. Get a spare 47 out to push em up!

TEW · 14 Dec 2013

The train I was on this evening lost 40 minutes between Totnes and Plymouth, eventually arriving nearly 60 late.

Goatboy · 15 Dec 2013

TEW said:
The train I was on this evening lost 40 minutes between Totnes and Plymouth, eventually arriving nearly 60 late.

Were you on the Paddington to Penzance service? I was stuck behind that at Totnes on an XC Voyager yesterday. We were told the train in front had 'failed' but given the area it had 'failed' in I wondered if it was more adhesion issues.

455driver · 15 Dec 2013

Goatboy said:
Were you on the Paddington to Penzance service? I was stuck behind that at Totnes on an XC Voyager yesterday. We were told the train in front had 'failed' but given the area it had 'failed' in I wondered if it was more adhesion issues.

If your train was 1V46 0750 Glasgow to Plymouth (due Totnes 1716) then I was on that train as well.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Do you know what unit was it, I didnt make a note, cheers.

Goatboy · 15 Dec 2013

It was and I'm afraid I didn't, sorry about that!

455driver · 15 Dec 2013

Okay thanks anyway.

TEW · 16 Dec 2013

Goatboy said:
Were you on the Paddington to Penzance service? I was stuck behind that at Totnes on an XC Voyager yesterday. We were told the train in front had 'failed' but given the area it had 'failed' in I wondered if it was more adhesion issues.

Yes I was. We certainly didn't fail. We kept moving the whole way up the bank, but it was at a crawling speed.

starrymarkb · 16 Dec 2013

I was on the XC HST going the other way around that time

(1724 from Plymouth) - we didn't get caught too badly but still lost 10 mins by Exeter (meaning I just missed the train up the hill to Central, the next was very delayed so had to walk home from St Davids!)

Going down on the 1145 from EXD earlier in the day I noticed that an HST going up from Totnes towards Newton Abbot was passed much slower then normal!

Parham Wood · 16 Dec 2013

OK can someone please advise why, when it is known that the bank is slippery, that rail treatment cannot be applied to the rails or is there no technical answer that works? This problem has been going on for several days, enough time to get a treatment train out at intervals. Sounds as though NR managers have their heads in sand rather than the sand being on the ralis

If there is a problem, fix it and keep it fixed!

455driver · 17 Dec 2013

TEW said:
Yes I was. We certainly didn't fail. We kept moving the whole way up the bank, but it was at a crawling speed.

Thats because the MOM (Mobile Operations manager) was hand sanding the rails in front of the HST, you cant expect them to run!

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Parham Wood said:
OK can someone please advise why, when it is known that the bank is slippery, that rail treatment cannot be applied to the rails or is there no technical answer that works? This problem has been going on for several days, enough time to get a treatment train out at intervals. Sounds as though NR managers have their heads in sand rather than the sand being on the ralis

If there is a problem, fix it and keep it fixed!

Who/what is going to apply the 'treatment' and when?

Your post smacks of knowing very little about how things are on the railway!

You could say the same about roads in snow, "why isnt frost prevention sprayed on all motorways/ main A roads when snow is forcast", can you see any problems with that?

DarloRich · 17 Dec 2013

Parham Wood said:
OK can someone please advise why, when it is known that the bank is slippery, that rail treatment cannot be applied to the rails or is there no technical answer that works? This problem has been going on for several days, enough time to get a treatment train out at intervals. Sounds as though NR managers have their heads in sand rather than the sand being on the ralis

If there is a problem, fix it and keep it fixed!

whilst i am sure you know best perhaps you could present some options as to how, when and where this treatment shall be applied taking into account all of the restrictions on locomotive and driver availability, route knowledge, operable staff hours, the time taken to replenish treatment trains and the location & availability of replenishment facilities.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
In any event - what is causing the issue with rail head adhesion?

VP185 · 17 Dec 2013

You've got TGAs, MPVs, Road/Rail vehicles or even a member of p/way staff who could manually apply sandite to the railhead.
These issues have been ongoing for a considerable length of time. It must be costing NR a fortune in delay minutes and damage to the railheads as well as costing the TOC for damaged wheelsets

DarloRich · 17 Dec 2013

VP185 said:
You've got TGAs, MPVs, Road/Rail vehicles or even a member of p/way staff who could manually apply sandite to the railhead.
These issues have been ongoing for a considerable length of time. It must be costing NR a fortune in delay minutes and damage to the railheads as well as costing the TOC for damaged wheelsets

yes but the point is what is causing the problem?

VP185 · 17 Dec 2013

It is leaves. You can see there is contamination on the railheads.

Network Rail has a 'plan' which says leaf fall season has finished and so have stopped jetting the railheads, the reality is very different.

43094 · 17 Dec 2013

14/12 - 0750 GLC - PLY (due Totnes 1716) is 1V56 (not 1V46) and was 221125 if that helps.

For completeness, 1V46 (0617 YRK - PLY) was 220027 on this date.

Devon problems

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Member

Member