Trainee Drivers that don't make it?

In the last two weeks on a particular TOC Two out of Seven Trainee Train Drivers(internal) have failed to come up to standard to such an extent that the two concerned have had to return to their original posts.

This is the third time this has happened on on that particular TOC..

All those three individuals were allowed to return to their original posts as they were all internal applicants.

Without introducing the issue of such a high failure rate (the drivers managers are questioning the whole selection and assessment process having waste d 6 months training) What would happen to an external applicant if they were not suitable.I have never heard of any external applicant being trained for 6 months and then being dismissed they have nearly always been retrained until they became competent? But not internal!


P.S such much for the train drivers assessment.

I know 3 trainees off the street who struggled and eventually failed areas of training. All three left the job (wernt sacked but were given the opportunity to jump before being pushed). I know one was offered the chance to apply for other jobs but declined.

The big difference with your example is that if already in the company you are no longer on probation. I believe when I was a trainee I was on a 1 year probation so they could get rid of me easily if I didn't meet training standards. If you are already in the company then you are on a different contract and not on probation so they can't really get rid of you as easily- plus from a business POV why sack someone who has experience in another area of the company? Return them to that area (they were obviously good at it to be 'promoted' into driving). They won't need retraining etc.

I know someone who failed ths Northern course about 10 years ago. He was an external. They offered him a Platforms (I.e. Despatch) role, which he took and says hes never regretted it. He has since then worked his way up to being a Fitter at Newton Heath as he came from an engineering background.

How about going back to cleaner, passed cleaner, fireman, passed fireman, driver and about twenty years working your way up to the top link.

Western Lord said:

How about going back to cleaner, passed cleaner, fireman, passed fireman, driver and about twenty years working your way up to the top link.

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Am I missing something? I don't understand your post in relation to the original question?

falcon said:

What would happen to an external applicant if they were not suitable.

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On the last Friday of the month they are taken aside and shot.

Cruel but effective.

A-driver said:

Am I missing something? I don't understand your post in relation to the original question?

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He simply means that the old fashioned way coming up through the footplate grades had a lot going for it. You learned the job as you worked your way up the ladder so that you knew long before it was time to be passed for driving whether or not you were up to it.

I've got a trainee with me now, gaining his 225 hours practical driving before he gets passed out. He's very good and he will have no problems but equally we've had some that have struggled and two (ten years ago) that simply weren't up to it, didn't complete the course, and returned to their previous role in the company.

I personally am an advocate for the old fashioned way. I was a second man, passed for driving twenty five years ago and spent my first almost ten years on locals. It's where I learned my trade and it never did me any harm. It gives you a greater respect for when you do the high speed long distance work.

The railway has changed and we have to move with the times, people get taken on by a company and they do the work applicable to that company be it freight or locals or high speed long distance work.

I remember an old driver telling me that some drivers were useless firemen but equally some firemen were useless drivers !

2 (external) trainees failed on my course, one was out the door and the other was offered a guards job.

Both decisions were correct, the one that got booted out was scary on the simulators.

I'm not sure I'm necessarily of the same mind as Western Champ on this matter, as sometimes the old way did not work either. However, I believe he acknowledges this. I certainly know of quite a few train despatchers, etc, who used to be drivers who presumably came up through the old system and either failed to make the grade immediately or were subsequently found to be deficient in the skills that make a good driver and redeployed elsewhere as a consequence. In this regard I am of the opinion that both systems of driver selection and training are flawed and that sometimes drivers who are not of a suitable calibre occasionally slip through the net and are only identified later as a result of their chequered driving careers.

It is right and proper that trainee drivers who are not up to snuff are weeded out. The selection process can only go so far in assessing suitability for the role and a few will fail to make the grade. I'm not sure that there is necessarily a difference between internal and external candidates in terms of the way that they are treated, though. The standards that need to be met are the same no matter where a trainee driver is recruited from. That said, it is easier for an internal candidate to get an assessment than it is for an external candidate, therefore it could be argued that there is less discernment applied to the quality of the applicant when they are internal compared to external. Therefore it could also be argued that they are more likely to fail than an external applicant. The proportion of internal candidates versus external candidates can also skew the perception of the comparative failure rates.

I have long been suspicious of the "us v them" attitudes that can sometimes be heard aired in messrooms between the "old school" and the newer drivers. I was recruited in a group of six almost ten years ago. Of the six, one dropped out because he decided it wasn't for him after all and only one has recently been kicked out of the driving grade due to his record. The remainder of us have worked to a high standard with almost no incidents between us. Yes the majority of incidents fall to those drivers with the least experience, but that was always the way even in the olden days. Those who are good at the job are still doing it whereas those who have a colourful career have been weeded out or are in the process of weeding themselves out. Ever was it thus and ever will it be.

O L Leigh

I've come across a few people in the past who've failed the train driving course who seemed to think that they had done the hard part getting through the psychometric testing and that the actual train driving course would be a piece of cake so to speak.

Both of those for mentioned people were internal applicants who were promptly returned to their original position within the company

I've known 2 trainee (external) drivers who didn't make it but both were offered ticket examiner roles. However, when you see their attitude its not hard to see where the problems were.............

On quite a few occasions i have been in the cab with qualified drivers and wondered to myself how on earth they got let loose in the seat! Scary!

falcon said:

What would happen to an external applicant if they were not suitable.I have never heard of any external applicant being trained for 6 months and then being dismissed they have nearly always been retrained until they became competent? But not internal!

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Going back to your original point, you make a false assumption. If faced with a trainee driver that hasn't "got it", driver management at any operator have a duty of care to remove them from the process. No driver trainer will risk their own livelyhood, by allowing an unsuitable trainee to continue either, regardless of where they have come from.