Pts concerns

pompeyfan · 11 Jul 2016

I have a PTS course shortly on a 3rd rail land. I'm quite concerned about the idea of having to actively step over a rail and 3rd rail, as well as the prospect of having to lay between 2 live rails in the 6foot in the event of an emergency.

That said there's lots of people with PTS knowledge so it can't be that bad surely?

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Elecman · 11 Jul 2016

pompeyfan said:
I have a PTS course shortly on a 3rd rail land. I'm quite concerned about the idea of having to actively step over a rail and 3rd rail, as well as the prospect of having to lay between 2 live rails in the 6foot in the event of an emergency.

That said there's lots of people with PTS knowledge so it can't be that bad surely?

You don't lie down between live rails ever. you only ever step over a 3rd rail if you cannot cross at a section gap or Public crossing both of which should be used in preference to stepping ov a live rail.

ComUtoR · 11 Jul 2016

Elecman said:
You don't lie down between live rails ever.

pompeyfan said:
...prospect of having to lay between 2 live rails in the 6 foot in the event of an emergency.

pompeyfan is correct. They even say that you should lay towards the train with your coat tucked in to prevent the draught pulling you along the track.

That said there's lots of people with PTS knowledge so it can't be that bad surely?

Do you have any specific concerns ? Public or private (feel free to PM me)

TEW · 11 Jul 2016

I believe you've stated before you're training to be a guard with SWT. In which case most of your PTS training is done in a non-live environment on the Network Rail facilities at the training centre at Basingstoke. And once you're out and about on your own you are very, very rarely going to have to go on the track, it's nothing to worry about really.

Johncleesefan · 11 Jul 2016

I hold dc pts on my card. Don't worry, u wont have to demonstrate how u would lie. And the chances of a situation arising in life where u would have to are extremely minimum. Still a scary prospect

GB · 11 Jul 2016

pompeyfan said:
I have a PTS course shortly on a 3rd rail land. I'm quite concerned about the idea of having to actively step over a rail and 3rd rail, as well as the prospect of having to lay between 2 live rails in the 6foot in the event of an emergency.

That said there's lots of people with PTS knowledge so it can't be that bad surely?

The chance of being in a situation where you have to lay between lines (DC or not) is so so remote, it is not worth worrying about.

Bigfoot · 11 Jul 2016

Elecman said:
You don't lie down between live rails ever. you only ever step over a 3rd rail if you cannot cross at a section gap or Public crossing both of which should be used in preference to stepping ov a live rail.

Erm you do in an emergency when you cannot reach a place of safety! Though how you got yourself in that mess will be throughly investigated after.

I just rechecked the latest version of the PTS for my TOC and it clearly states to lay in the 6ft face down if you cannot reach a place of safety.

ComUtoR · 11 Jul 2016

Has anyone seen the video of the two staff members ducking down into the safe space by the platform as the train drove over them at go know how many miles per hour ?

Louby · 11 Jul 2016

ComUtoR said:
Has anyone seen the video of the two staff members ducking down into the safe space by the platform as the train drove over them at go know how many miles per hour ?

Yep I did, took my pts ( driver) about 10 weeks ago and we had to do neither, yes they explain it but you don't do it .

ComUtoR · 11 Jul 2016

Louby said:
Yep I did, took my pts ( driver) about 10 weeks ago and we had to do neither, yes they explain it but you don't do it .

Took mine.... ago. Had to step over live rail, apply egg box and short circuit bar. During Driver training you will be inches from the live rail many many times.

They don't scare monger people but they do absolutely lay it out straight with pictures and videos, diagrams, incident reports and anecdotal evidence. The railway is a dangerous place.

The point of PTS is to highlight all the dangers so that you are acutely aware and then they teach you how to avoid them at all costs.

Always remember, safety is number one priority.

Louby · 11 Jul 2016

ComUtoR said:
Took mine.... ago. Had to step over live rail, apply egg box and short circuit bar. During Driver training you will be inches from the live rail many many times.

They don't scare monger people but they do absolutely lay it out straight with pictures and videos, diagrams, incident reports and anecdotal evidence. The railway is a dangerous place.

The point of PTS is to highlight all the dangers so that you are acutely aware and then they teach you how to avoid them at all costs.

Always remember, safety is number one priority.

Absolutely agree

Boiliee · 11 Jul 2016

The 6ft is two running rails NOT two live rails

GB · 11 Jul 2016

Boiliee said:
The 6ft is two running rails NOT two live rails

He was talking about 3rd rail so I took "live rails" to mean conductor rails.

Nevillehill · 11 Jul 2016

Boiliee said:
The 6ft is two running rails NOT two live rails

Thought that was the 4ft? and the 6ft is the distance between two sets of track.

ComUtoR · 11 Jul 2016

4ft (between 2 rails)
6ft (between 2 lines)
10ft (between 2 sets of 2 lines)

Let's face it, we know what he was talking about. Consider that in DC land the conductor rail can be both sides of the 6ft it is possible to be caught between the conductor rails.

Duck, cover, pray.

SpacePhoenix · 11 Jul 2016

ComUtoR said:
Took mine.... ago. Had to step over live rail, apply egg box and short circuit bar. During Driver training you will be inches from the live rail many many times.

They don't scare monger people but they do absolutely lay it out straight with pictures and videos, diagrams, incident reports and anecdotal evidence. The railway is a dangerous place.

The point of PTS is to highlight all the dangers so that you are acutely aware and then they teach you how to avoid them at all costs.

Always remember, safety is number one priority.

What's the "egg box"?

Shrimper · 11 Jul 2016

ComUtoR said:
Has anyone seen the video of the two staff members ducking down into the safe space by the platform as the train drove over them at go know how many miles per hour ?

This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ9DWgePGp0

ComUtoR · 11 Jul 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
What's the "egg box"?

It is a box of light bulbs that you place on the conductor rail to prove the current is live. I'm not sure of its technical name. Placing a box directly onto a live rail is scary as hell. http://www.unipartrail.com/assets/live-line-tester.pdf or http://www.resourcing-solutions.com/upload/file/Newsletter (December 2012).pdf Page 7 has a picture on the rails

Conductor Rail Test Lamp Set (CRTLS)

Shrimper said:
This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQ9DWgePGp0

Yep. That video still freaks me out.

pompeyfan · 12 Jul 2016

Thanks for all the responses. Very insightful and very reassuring.

alxndr · 12 Jul 2016

I did PTS DCCR about two years ago, as far as I can remember the only practical elements were applying a track circuit operating clip, fitting a shield over the conductor rail, and stepping over it. None was live as it was using a dummy stretch of third rail at a training school in a non-electrified area.

Phil. · 12 Jul 2016

Don't all get scared. There's nothing to fear from the conductor rail. Where and when would a member of train crew use an egg box? Once that short circuiting bar is down (don't forget to scrape the underneath of the con. rail with it first to ensure a good contact) it's dead.
Do guards/conductors get trained in the use of short circuiting bars nowadays? In my day it was drivers only who got to play with it.

tsr · 12 Jul 2016

It looks like everyone's DC PTS has subtle differences. I didn't have to do the "egg box" and I am not required to lay a short-circuiting bar per my employer's procedures anyway, but I did have to lay TCOCs on track with a live third rail and step over said rail (in wet conditions too, for added fun).

And I had to work with a lookout... didn't have a line block and we were on a (slight) curve...

ComUtoR · 12 Jul 2016

Phil. said:
Once that short circuiting bar is down (don't forget to scrape the underneath of the con. rail with it first to ensure a good contact) it's dead.

It's not quite dead. The ECO will reenergise the conductor rail when it blows. The Short Circuit bar will re-blow the juice when they do.

I did my SCB Training "live" and we used the egg box to prove the rail each time. Our current training school has a section of dead track for training purposes. Ah the old days

SpacePhoenix · 12 Jul 2016

ComUtoR said:
It's not quite dead. The ECO will reenergise the conductor rail when it blows. The Short Circuit bar will re-blow the juice when they do.

I did my SCB Training "live" and we used the egg box to prove the rail each time. Our current training school has a section of dead track for training purposes. Ah the old days

Will train crews normally first try and contact the ECO to request the juice gets switched off?

Lrd · 12 Jul 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Will train crews normally first try and contact the ECO to request the juice gets switched off?

Very much so, the SCB (SCD on the Underground) is a last resort if you can't get hold of anyone and to also make sure it stays off when someone does switch off.

ComUtoR · 12 Jul 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Will train crews normally first try and contact the ECO to request the juice gets switched off?

First contact is Signaller to request a ~~current isolation~~ emergency switch off.

Short circuit bar has a couple of uses but is essentially for emergencies and to prevent the re-energisation of the conductor rail.

Bourlea · 12 Jul 2016

Hi pompeyfan,

Have you started your course at Basingstoke yet as a new guard course started last week?
As for PTS yes you visit both the live railway and the training area.

pompeyfan · 13 Jul 2016

Hi Bourlea,

I did try and respond via PM but you're not yet eligible to send and recieve PMs yet.

leonardos84 · 14 Jul 2016

TEW said:
I believe you've stated before you're training to be a guard with SWT. In which case most of your PTS training is done in a non-live environment on the Network Rail facilities at the training centre at Basingstoke. And once you're out and about on your own you are very, very rarely going to have to go on the track, it's nothing to worry about really.

Well if he is Waterloo guard or strawberry hill he will have to go into clapham yard at some point to take out an ecs or walk through the depot at strawberry hill....
When i had my training at basingstoke we had to go into barton mill sidings so if they still do that then he will have to cross live rails...

SpacePhoenix · 14 Jul 2016

Wouldn't 3rd rail pts be part of the standard training for all SWTs driver and guards?

Pts concerns

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