313 in the dirt at Welwyn (13/09)

87015 · 13 Sep 2016

This weeks first riot to follow on from last week on the East Coast, GTR have derailed 313055 (paired with 050) with two coaches well off the road at Welwyn on the upside just south of the station. early reports suggest run through trap points coming out of headshunt.

Up Flyover blocked so plenty of delays to ECML being caused by shunts across the lot at north end and resultant congestion.

Oops.

RailUK Forums

OMGitsDAVE · 13 Sep 2016

The disruption doesn't seem too bad at the moment, arrivals at York and Kings Cross seem to be flowing nicely. It does, however, alert you to possible delays to Great Northern Services, which doesn't seem to be the way just yet.

jon0844 · 13 Sep 2016

OMGitsDAVE said:
The disruption doesn't seem too bad at the moment, arrivals at York and Kings Cross seem to be flowing nicely. It does, however, alert you to possible delays to Great Northern Services, which doesn't seem to be the way just yet.

I saw this on Facebook very early this morning and it said then that no trains were running and buses were being put on to the Piccadilly Line. Then I saw later than quite a few trains were in fact running after all, and allegedly the buses weren't?

SpacePhoenix · 13 Sep 2016

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/710122/thames-link-railway-derailment-london-kings-cross

A TRAIL derailment has caused commuter chaos for passengers travelling to and from London Kings Cross this morning.

The train derailed by Welwyn Garden City in the early hours of this morning

The accident occurred near Welwyn Garden City during the very early hours of this morning.

Luckily, there were no injuries as the train was empty of passengers and travelling at a low speed.

It has caused disruption between Stevenage and London Kings Cross which is expected to continue for the rest of the day.

Would the trap point be somewhere about where the far bogie is of the second coach back?

notverydeep · 13 Sep 2016

This seemed to cause remarkably little disruption this morning in the peak and little since. All four through lines beside seem to have remained open. My train passed the site more or less on time, but with more standing passengers because of the cancellation of the 07:42 Royston - King's Cross. That and one early Welwyn Garden City - Moorgate train seem to be the only services cancelled according to Real Time Trains.

Some minor delays to Moorgate services as the 313s have to use the ladder crossing the fast lines on the level north of Welwyn Garden City station to return south after reversing and this move coupled with waiting for gaps between fast trains takes a bit longer. Hopefully the PM peak will pass off OK as well...

SPADTrap · 13 Sep 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/710122/thames-link-railway-derailment-london-kings-cross

Would the trap point be somewhere about where the far bogie is of the second coach back?

Yes it is.

Jd12 · 13 Sep 2016

I'm presuming he was reversing in the sidings and the catch points weren't set for a movement out causing a derailment. See attached imagine for diagram of reversing siding at Welwyn.

A0wen · 13 Sep 2016

This presumably means the little used bay-platform on the east side of the station was pressed into use today?

Don't know if that ever sees a regular service use.

Can't remember whether it's no 1 or 4 nowadays - ISTR they reversed the platform numbering at WGC some years back.

petersi · 13 Sep 2016

It's platform 1 and it's not a bay. It sees a few trains each day. The 16:40 kings cross service uses it as do some late night

DarloRich · 13 Sep 2016

picture here - NOT MINE:

313055 20160913 WelwynGC by steam60163, on Flickr

Clip · 13 Sep 2016

DarloRich said:
picture here - NOT MINE:

313055 20160913 WelwynGC by steam60163, on Flickr

Isnt that the same pic as used in the news story Darlo? :lol:

jon0844 · 13 Sep 2016

DarloRich said:
picture here - NOT MINE:

313055 20160913 WelwynGC by steam60163, on Flickr

Looks like it came home drunk and collapsed in a ditch!

ungreat · 13 Sep 2016

Jd12 said:
I'm presuming he was reversing in the sidings and the catch points weren't set for a movement out causing a derailment. See attached imagine for diagram of reversing siding at Welwyn.

Its a single road headshunt to enable platform to platform shunts without using the ladder junction across the main line to the north of the station. Instead the flyover is used.

Having done this shunt many times I can guess what has happened but will not speculate. I will wait for the official report

SpacePhoenix · 14 Sep 2016

Will it be just jack it up and slide across to recover it?

SPADTrap · 14 Sep 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Will it be just jack it up and slide across to recover it?

No. Difficulties encountered last night due to soft ground so being reviewed again today, possibly removing the OHLE!

A0wen · 14 Sep 2016

petersi said:
It's platform 1 and it's not a bay. It sees a few trains each day. The 16:40 kings cross service uses it as do some late night

Doh - Brain fade, of course it's a loop not a bay.

I'm sure the platform numbering on WGC was reversed sometime in the late 90s.... so that used to be P4.

I only ever recall it seeing sporadic use - pre-electrification it was probably more heavily used as the flyover didn't exist which was constructed to allow P1 to receive a train from London and send it back to London without crossing on the level.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Just looking at GN's website and spotted this one .

So basically it's running fast from Hertford to Finsbury Park - that could be a fun run.....

"09:04 Stevenage to Moorgate due 10:07

This train will be starting late from Stevenage and is expected to be 15 minutes late.
This train will no longer call at Bayford, Cuffley, Crews Hill, Gordon Hill, Enfield Chase, Grange Park, Winchmore Hill, Palmers Green, Bowes Park, Alexandra Palace, Hornsey and Harringay.
This is due to a late running train being in front of this one."

petersi · 14 Sep 2016

I think regular use of platform 1 only happened when the service became 3 car during the day

Lockwood · 14 Sep 2016

You would have thought that a location that is designed to derail a train would also be designed to make it easier to pick it back up again.

Also, cakes.

SpacePhoenix · 14 Sep 2016

If they have to remove some of the OHLE (presumably for operating a crane), what's the minimum length they can get away with removing?

A0wen · 14 Sep 2016

petersi said:
I think regular use of platform 1 only happened when the service became 3 car during the day

Not sure why that would be the case - WGC's platforms are plenty long enough for 6 or 8 car trains.

petersi · 14 Sep 2016

A0wen said:
Not sure why that would be the case - WGC's platforms are plenty long enough for 6 or 8 car trains.

Very badly phrased by me what I Meant to say that when the Moorgate trains were only 2tph platform 1 was only used occasionally

jon0844 · 14 Sep 2016

I'm always a bit more surprised when platform 3 is used for a London service, as it seems odd to have a platform where trains can go both ways - and a recipe for disaster when the screens aren't working properly (as can happen in disruption, when trains are turned around there).

I've been on a train from platform 3 a few times and the screens have not been showing the information, and RTT has been confused too. Indeed, RTT has sometimes shown a train at a platform when it hasn't even turned up yet.

Joe Public won't always know that when a 4 car 317 is sitting on platform 3 that it absolutely can't be a train to Moorgate...

Failed Unit · 14 Sep 2016

Platform 1 does have some regular departures. 0942 wgc is always on platform 1 for example. Normally 1 Moorgate train per hour uses it.

SpacePhoenix · 14 Sep 2016

Has the unit been recovered yet?

Bald Rick · 14 Sep 2016

SpacePhoenix said:
Has the unit been recovered yet?

As was mentioned when you asked earlier, it needs craning out, and given the specific of the location that means a rail mounted crane. That means the OLE may have to be moved. Even if it doesn't, it will have to be isolated. I can't see it being done in anything less than 10-12 hours. That means either closing the ECML for at least one peak, with resultant disruption for some time afterwards, or doing it over the weekend.

If I was running any of the TOCs on that line, I know what id be asking NR to do.

petersi · 14 Sep 2016

The disruption is now going on until Sunday according to great northern website

Bald Rick · 14 Sep 2016

petersi said:
The disruption is now going on until Sunday according to great northern website

Well there you go. The right decision!

eastdyke · 14 Sep 2016

Bald Rick said:
Well there you go. The right decision!

I have every confidence that the 'Industry' will make the right decision.

FWIW (from NRE site) I cannot recall ever seeing 'low level of disruption' before, it would seem to be a contradiction of terms.

That said perhaps travellers on the route are more used to 'a high level of disruption'.

E_Reeves · 14 Sep 2016

Jd12 said:
I'm presuming he was reversing in the sidings and the catch points weren't set for a movement out causing a derailment. See attached imagine for diagram of reversing siding at Welwyn.

Where is that diagram from?

SpacePhoenix · 15 Sep 2016

Where is the nearest rail-mounted crane to the site? There can't be too many rail mounted cranes across the network

313 in the dirt at Welwyn (13/09)

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