City Night Lines in the bin

route101 · 1 Dec 2016

duesselmartin said:
that includes IC coaches which will be replaced by an extra ICE. The dutch have long fought CNL to withdraw as its seen a hinderence to there national frequent services.

Not many 'Normal' trains in Holland anymore , i mean that type of carriage and Loco Hauled

RailUK Forums

Groningen · 2 Dec 2016

Not many 'Normal' trains in Holland anymore , i mean that type of carriage and Loco Hauled

Only Intercity Direct (Amsterdam - Breda) and Benelux (Amsterdam - Brussel) have locomotives for fast services. There are 1700 locomotives in stoppingservices with a DD-AR set.

Bletchleyite · 2 Dec 2016

I guess the temporary converted ex-DB loco-hauled Bm235 sets have been scrapped now?

Groningen · 2 Dec 2016

Those are (i forgot) in the Amsterdam to Berlin and v.v. train.

Bletchleyite · 2 Dec 2016

Sorry, I meant these:

JonathanP · 2 Dec 2016

sarahj said:
Any idea on the formations of these 16 coach trains. Could be fun to make up in HO.
Cheers

Coaching stock diagrams here, link will probably go dead after the timetable change.
AFAIK the Warsaw, Prague portions have PKP/CD stock, everything else is CNL.

Bletchleyite · 2 Dec 2016

Longest appears to be 15. Still a long train by any European standard though!

Groningen · 2 Dec 2016

According to Wikipedia those carriages were in use from 2002 to 2009 in the Netherlands. Some are sold to Hector Rail and after a refit in Romania go to Sweden. If this is done i do not know.

Sweden's Hector Rail acquires 200km/h coaches

Swedish operator Hector Rail has acquired 42 type ICK coaches from Netherlands Railways (NS) leasing subsidiary NS Financial Services.

Hector Rail provides traction services to other operators and does not plan to operate passenger services

itself, but will in future be able to offer complete trains for hire. The company is already working with Veolia in the Swedish passenger market.

According to Hector Rail, there is currently no coaching stock available on the Swedish market capable of operating at speeds exceeding 160km/h. Hector Rail already has a fleet of Siemens Taurus electric locomotives, which can operate at up to 230km/h.

The coaches will need extensive refurbishment before they can enter service with their new owner, including work to prepare them for 200km/h operation. The vehicles, which were acquired by NS from German Rail (DB) in 2000 were limited to 140km/h running in the Netherlands due to the deactivation of the magnetic brakes and installation of a new static transformer under the floor.

The coaches will also undergo interior refurbishment, although Hector Rail says the layout, fittings and finish will be determined by the end customer.

150 ICK coaches were delivered to German Federal Railways from 1963 onwards, and were acquired by NS to address a shortage of inter-city coaches prior to the delivery of new double-deck emus. The coaches were withdrawn by 2009 and offered for sale by NS Financial Services. Most have been stored in the open for many years and the asking price for the vehicles is understood to have fallen significantly since the coaches were first put on the market.

Source: Railjournal from March 27, 2013

route101 · 2 Dec 2016

Neil Williams said:
Sorry, I meant these:

Interesting , first time ive seen regular Dutch coaches

Bletchleyite · 2 Dec 2016

They were bought in used from DB to solve a short-term capacity problem, I believe. Sadly they put blocks in so you couldn't window-lean

Groningen · 2 Dec 2016

Capacity problem in the Netherlands are often so great, that we also had material from Belgium.

30907 · 3 Dec 2016

JonathanP said:
Coaching stock diagrams here, link will probably go dead after the timetable change.
AFAIK the Warsaw, Prague portions have PKP/CD stock, everything else is CNL.

The new OeBB formations are also on that site. Some interesting shunting involved at Nuremburg - and ingenious use of stock on Zurich-Hamburg which is formed off the Wien-Zurich AND Graz-Zurich workings on a 4-day diagram.

Another useful site for current AND historic formations is http://www.vagonweb.cz/razeni/index.php?rok=2016&lang=en but it covers central rather than western Europe

Groningen · 4 Dec 2016

How easy would it be to have a train just from Duisburg to Amsterdam and v.v. to connect with the nighttrains?

duesselmartin · 5 Dec 2016

Groningen said:
How easy would it be to have a train just from Duisburg to Amsterdam and v.v. to connect with the nighttrains?

or just re-time the existing ICE. After all, NS is moaning about lack of revenue on those trains too.

Groningen · 5 Dec 2016

or just re-time the existing ICE. After all, NS is moaning about lack of revenue on those trains too.

In the new timetable the last ICE to IC Swisstrain is at 18.37 and wait in Koeln for 2 hours and 40 minutes. This has a Sparpreis of 80 euro; absolute last train is at 19.55 for 45 euros. As said earlier a 2 minute change in Utrecht. Delicate!

Somewhere next year a stoppingservice will come from Arnhem to the Ruhrarea and v.v..

From Basel departure is now at 23.13 from Basel SBB and arrive at 9.34 in Amsterdam. No change. In the new schedule it is 6 minutes earlier with a change on a ICE in Koeln.

Essexman · 13 Dec 2016

I was in Cologne last night and watched the sleeper to Austria leave at 21.21 - two portions, one for Vienna and one for Innsbruck. It was good this running and it seems a reasonable way to get to Austria from the UK. I would like to user it one day.
There were two car carriers at the back, I assume Motorail which I didn't know still ran.

30907 · 13 Dec 2016

Essexman said:
I was in Cologne last night and watched the sleeper to Austria leave at 21.21 - two portions, one for Vienna and one for Innsbruck. It was good this running and it seems a reasonable way to get to Austria from the UK. I would like to user it one day.
There were two car carriers at the back, I assume Motorail which I didn't know still ran.

Motorail to Vienna daily (very popular with bikers when I saw it in May) and to Innsbruck 3/weekly IIRC. Certainly well worth using - and connects very well with the last ICE from Amsterdam.

WhiteJoker · 13 Dec 2016

duesselmartin said:
that includes IC coaches which will be replaced by an extra ICE. The dutch have long fought CNL to withdraw as its seen a hinderence to there national frequent services.

I'm curious as to why you'd think that. As far as I know NS has maintained that the closure is due to the carriages needing an overhaul and DB's unwillingness to fund that. As to hinderance: The Amsterdam - Berlin IC trains are being used as national trains as well, replacing a normal train every 2 hours.

duesselmartin · 14 Dec 2016

WhiteJoker said:
I'm curious as to why you'd think that. As far as I know NS has maintained that the closure is due to the carriages needing an overhaul and DB's unwillingness to fund that. As to hinderance: The Amsterdam - Berlin IC trains are being used as national trains as well, replacing a normal train every 2 hours.

If I remember correctly two reasons were stated.
Common delays by CNL made the service difficult to integrate it and difficulty of getting a balancing service within a 4 trains an hour service.

30907 · 14 Dec 2016

WhiteJoker said:
As to hinderance: The Amsterdam - Berlin IC trains are being used as national trains as well, replacing a normal train every 2 hours.

True - ISTR it was the only way it could fit in the increased timetable a few years ago - but a CNL is rather different: it hasn't the capacity to replace a normal train on (say) Arnhem-Amsterdam, even off-peak, and so has to be found a spare path, which in the morning peak is a decided hindrance.

I read somewhere that OeBB were hopeful of extending their Duesseldorf service to Amsterdam in the future - an 11am arrival at Centraal should be manageable, and the return would be after the peak. However, as the train engine is currently responsible for shunting the motorail portion at Duesseldorf, it will complicate matters (and add to cost).

Please Explain · 19 Dec 2016

The loss of the Pollox (CNL 418 / 419 München - Amsterdam) and indeed the other deleted connections is a pity. Surely a route connecting Europes two drinking / partying capitals is profitable?!
It was certainly well loaded when I used it for the last time last month.

CNL RIP, 1995-2016...

Sehr schade..! :cry:

duesselmartin · 19 Dec 2016

well ÖBB is taking over part of the CNL Bollox route as NightJet, so yes it can be.
Looking at air travel, the most popular destination from Düsseldorf is Munich.
Sadly DB does not want to invest in new Couchette/Sleepers.

Bletchleyite · 19 Dec 2016

duesselmartin said:
well ÖBB is taking over part of the CNL Bollox route as NightJet, so yes it can be.
Looking at air travel, the most popular destination from Düsseldorf is Munich.
Sadly DB does not want to invest in new Couchette/Sleepers.

They basically want to follow us in becoming mainly a DMU and EMU railway. Except we just ordered a load of new LHCS

That said, I don't see why a "sleeper EMU" would be a hard thing to do, and it'd make the portion-working typical of Sleeper operations really easy. I'm sure Stadler, the masters of short production runs, could come up with something based on the FLIRT, with diesel modules if necessary.

Groningen · 19 Dec 2016

Only problem seem to be (not sure whether it is mentioned here) that the reservation cost are 15 euro for the nighttrain. If any one can confirm it!

City Night Lines in the bin

Established Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member