City Night Lines in the bin

[route101]

Has there ever been Paris/ Brussels to Prague /Budapest sleepers?

 

[30907]

Has there ever been Paris/ Brussels to Prague /Budapest sleepers?

Budapest was on the "traditional" Orient Express route. My Feb 1980 Cooks shows it having sleepers 4 nights out of 7 (not shown in the draft summer service).

There was an overnight Paris-Prague service (via Nuremberg-Schirnding-Cheb) with couchettes not sleepers. Paris-Saarbruecken-Frankfurt-Dresden-Prague became part of the German EC/IC network in the 90's but succumbed to the ICE. I don't recall if there was a night train as well as a day train that way.

I don't think there have been through services Brussels-Prague, and the nearest service to Budapest I can find is the Oostende-Wien express with a through coach Frankfurt-Budapest!

From 1945-89 international travel to both destinations was a little difficult.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

I'm glad that in East Europe, sleepers are still king. Ticked off the Kiev - Odessa and Chisinau - Bucharest sleepers this week, with seriously old school coaches, military border guards and even gauge changes.

Which other routes do people recommend for unusual experiences?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Chisinau-Bucharest is good - a proper Soviet style experience - and some of the guards do seem to think the USSR is still going.

 

[Starmill]

In the UK there is very little tax on the fuel for trains - isn't that the same in the rest of Europe, OOI?

I've always thought that transport operators should have no tax on fuel as an anti-car measure. Of course that doesn't quite work for airlines, but we do have taxes specifically designed for that.

 

[route101]

Budapest was on the "traditional" Orient Express route. My Feb 1980 Cooks shows it having sleepers 4 nights out of 7 (not shown in the draft summer service).

There was an overnight Paris-Prague service (via Nuremberg-Schirnding-Cheb) with couchettes not sleepers. Paris-Saarbruecken-Frankfurt-Dresden-Prague became part of the German EC/IC network in the 90's but succumbed to the ICE. I don't recall if there was a night train as well as a day train that way.

I don't think there have been through services Brussels-Prague, and the nearest service to Budapest I can find is the Oostende-Wien express with a through coach Frankfurt-Budapest!

From 1945-89 international travel to both destinations was a little difficult.

Thanks . I know theres still Paris to Moscow. Other than that not many regulat sleepers in Western Europe . What about Norway , Sweden and Denmark? I think Malmo had a sleeper to Germany .

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Chisinau-Bucharest is good - a proper Soviet style experience - and some of the guards do seem to think the USSR is still going.

Go to Transnistria and it still does, we got met off the train by a KGB Officer with hammer and sickle emblem and escorted, politely but firmly, to the immigration office.

Served by a Chisinau to Moscova sleeper, but not a regular service as best I could tell. I caught the day train from Odesa.

 

[Groningen]

I have here the 1996 foreign timetablebook of the Dutch railways. I has even a picture of the Underground in London and Paris.

Nighttrains from and to Amsterdam:
Amsterdam 20.05 - Chiasso (yes near Milano) 11.26
Chiasso 18.05 - Amsterdam 8.54
also some going from and to Brig

Amsterdam 19.25 - Muenchen 6.30
Muenchen 23.06 - Amsterdam 9.40

Amsterdam 19.25 - Wien 9.43
Wien 19.20 - Amsterdam 9.40

Amsterdam 22.15 - Paris 6.56
Paris 23.22 - Amsterdam 8.02

Schiphol 22.22 - Berlin 7.06
Berlin 23.55 - Schiphol 8.04

Amsterdam 17.25 - Rimini 12.32 (3 days a week in the summer)
Rimini 16.10 - Amsterdam 11.33

Amsterdam 20.14 - Kobenhavn (Denmark) 7.30 (June 19 - August 26)
Kobenhavn 22.05 - Amsterdam 9.48

Cartrain Den Bosch - Hendaye (1 per week)
Cartrain Den Bosch - Narbonne (1 per week + 1 extra in the summer)
Cartrain Den Bosch - Cerbere (1 per week + 1 extra in the summer)

Also once a week a cartrain to and from Pesaro, Verona and Villach

 

[Bletchleyite]

Go to Transnistria and it still does, we got met off the train by a KGB Officer with hammer and sickle emblem and escorted, politely but firmly, to the immigration office.

Served by a Chisinau to Moscova sleeper, but not a regular service as best I could tell. I caught the day train from Odesa.

Done Transnistria by bus from Chisinau, and while the border was a bit slow, scruffy and bureaucratic it wasn't an overly Soviet experience. Interesting.

Tiraspol feels positively latter-day-Soviet, though - barely anything to do there as nobody has any money!

 

[30907]

Thanks . What about Norway , Sweden and Denmark? I think Malmo had a sleeper to Germany .

The Copenhagen CNL went a couple of years ago IIRC (and the one internal Danish service - at the end using spare Mk IIIs - many years before).

ISTR the seasonal Malmo-Berlin service ran for the last time in August - changes to the ferry timetable were the last straw!).

Norway and Sweden (and Finland) have a number of internal sleeper routes, and pretty much anywhere East of Berlin-Prague-Vienna is a good bet.

 

[Groningen]

In the past (1996):
Kopenhagen 21.45 - Oslo 7.07
Oslo 22.43 - Kopenhagen 7.42

Kopenhagen 23.15 - Stockholm 7.53
Stockholm 22.30 - Kopenhagen 7.00

2016:
Kopenhagen 19.40 - Oslo 8.22
Oslo 18.02 - Kopenhagen 7.28

Kopenhagen 21.00 - Stockholm 6.16
Stockholm 23.14 - Kopenhagen 7.28
(not sure whether this a SJ train)

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Done Transnistria by bus from Chisinau, and while the border was a bit slow, scruffy and bureaucratic it wasn't an overly Soviet experience. Interesting.

Tiraspol feels positively latter-day-Soviet, though - barely anything to do there as nobody has any money!

Cool, have you any pics online, would be interested to see.

It was amazing how quiet Tiraspol and Benderey were, infinitely more than Chisinau. Felt very big and empty.

I understand the road borders have been 'cleaned up' a lot in the last year or two. On the way out we used a smaller road crossing, our driver handed over our passports along with the entry forms through a checkpoint window, 30 seconds later passports were back and we were on our way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Cool, have you any pics online, would be interested to see.

Afraid not, we were advised (I forget where) that photography in Transnistria was ill-advised.

It was amazing how quiet Tiraspol and Benderey were, infinitely more than Chisinau. Felt very big and empty.

Indeed.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Afraid not, we were advised (I forget where) that photography in Transnistria was ill-advised.

We had no problems, took loads of pics of monuments and trolleybuses. Only the parliament building and military/police we were advised not to photograph.

When did you go?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Winter 2012 - perhaps things have changed a bit since then? Or maybe it was bad advice.

 

[Busaholic]

Chisinau-Bucharest is good - a proper Soviet style experience - and some of the guards do seem to think the USSR is still going.

More importantly, President Putin believes it too, and if he can convince President-elect Trump, it may become a reality.

 

[route101]

Cool, have you any pics online, would be interested to see.

It was amazing how quiet Tiraspol and Benderey were, infinitely more than Chisinau. Felt very big and empty.

I understand the road borders have been 'cleaned up' a lot in the last year or two. On the way out we used a smaller road crossing, our driver handed over our passports along with the entry forms through a checkpoint window, 30 seconds later passports were back and we were on our way.

Did you get a Passport Stamp?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I think I got one, can't remember though and it was my old passport.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Whilst mentioning passports I was very surprised a couple of weeks ago to be woken up at 00h30 at Passau (Austrian -German border) by a German Border Guard demanding 'Passporten' (very loudly) (We were travelling Vienna-Frankfurt). The guard had no sense of humour. Apparently these checks are regular now.

 

[duesselmartin]

Yes， Passau is on one of the main refugee routes. Checks are expected to continue at least until Febuary, most likely extended beyond that.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Yes， Passau is on one of the main refugee routes. Checks are expected to continue at least until Febuary, most likely extended beyond that.

Thanks for that information. That is what we suspected. It would have been good to have been told beforehand as I probably wouldn't have gone to sleep, after his visit I really struggled!

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Did you get a Passport Stamp?

No, they stamp a form you get given, but not the passport. I wanted to ask them to stamp the passport but our guide explained it would be illegal (not sure for whom?!)

Perhaps because they are not an internationally recognised border crossing?

Whilst mentioning passports I was very surprised a couple of weeks ago to be woken up at 00h30 at Passau (Austrian -German border) by a German Border Guard demanding 'Passporten' (very loudly) (We were travelling Vienna-Frankfurt). The guard had no sense of humour. Apparently these checks are regular now.

We were quite fortunate - going Chisinau to Bucharesti, the passport checks are about 10-11pm. Going Eastbound, they are about 4am. Although given you will have been shunted around a lot at the gauge changing site, I imagine most people would be awake anyway.

 

[route101]

No, they stamp a form you get given, but not the passport. I wanted to ask them to stamp the passport but our guide explained it would be illegal (not sure for whom?!)

Perhaps because they are not an internationally recognised border crossing?



We were quite fortunate - going Chisinau to Bucharesti, the passport checks are about 10-11pm. Going Eastbound, they are about 4am. Although given you will have been shunted around a lot at the gauge changing site, I imagine most people would be awake anyway.

Maybe as its not recognised internationally , doubt the stampwould cause problems.
Ive got a Kosovo stamp in my passport and i got into Serbia no bother.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Whilst mentioning passports I was very surprised a couple of weeks ago to be woken up at 00h30 at Passau (Austrian -German border) by a German Border Guard demanding 'Passporten' (very loudly) (We were travelling Vienna-Frankfurt). The guard had no sense of humour. Apparently these checks are regular now.

Was that just after Salzburg?
I was on Zagreb - Munich sleeper last year and were checked . Passports werent actually checked , the compartment door was just opened and the policeman had a look .

 

[30907]

Maybe as its not recognised internationally , doubt the stampwould cause problems.
Ive got a Kosovo stamp in my passport and i got into Serbia no bother.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Was that just after Salzburg?

Different route, same issue.

 

[Groningen]

With less nighttrains crossing the border those borderpatrol persons can have again a decent night of sleep.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Was that just after Salzburg?
I was on Zagreb - Munich sleeper last year and were checked . Passports werent actually checked , the compartment door was just opened and the policeman had a look .

No...it was actually whilst we were stationary at Passau. The guard banged on the door, inspected our passports and did a quick torchlight survey of the cabin, including the alcove above the door.

 

[JonathanP]

ISTR the seasonal Malmo-Berlin service ran for the last time in August - changes to the ferry timetable were the last straw!).

I read there are also international rule changes which prohibit passengers staying on the train while at sea. If there is no way round that it would definitely kill the thing off because it spends most of the night on the ferry.

I found it amazing it lasted so long. The complications & costs of a Swedish company running a service using Swedish carriages in Germany, handling passenger trains on a ferry which carries no other passenger trains, shunting on and off the ferry at both ends and a dedicated loco on the German side must have been enormous, all for the sake of running a short train just a few days a week over the summer season.

Meanwhile the heavily used 15 coach daily CityNightLine to Amsterdam is about to be axed as uneceonomic! Someone at ScandLines must really have a soft spot for the service.

 

[duesselmartin]

Meanwhile the heavily used 15 coach daily CityNightLine to Amsterdam is about to be axed as uneceonomic! Someone at ScandLines must really have a soft spot for the service.

that includes IC coaches which will be replaced by an extra ICE. The dutch have long fought CNL to withdraw as its seen a hinderence to there national frequent services.

 

[sarahj]

considering the former Schweiz Express Amsterdam-Basel had up to 16 coaches and was very busy only 15 years ago, the decline is shocking.
I assume night trains dont fit into NS's concept of 15 min intervals on major routes.

Any idea on the formations of these 16 coach trains. Could be fun to make up in HO.

Cheers

 

[Groningen]

Schweiz Expres 203 (1996)
176 Couchette
177 Sleep
178 Couchette
179 Couchette
180 1/2 seating
181 2 seating
182 2 seating
183 2 seating with bikestorage