Source : http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-38507098
Sounds like she was shortfaring and failed the attitude test as well.
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Police Officer sacked over dishonesty when caught 'short faring'
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Source : http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-northamptonshire-38507098
Sounds like she was shortfaring and failed the attitude test as well.
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fredk
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Looks as if she was sacked for lying rather than simply not paying for a train ticket. Just happened to be caught out this way. I'm not sure why it's newsworthy.
furnessvale
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She has demonstrated a dishonest trait. A police officer can easily be dismissed with the probationary period but it is much more difficult after that.
When I was a probationer, a full 50% of my induction course were dismissed for a variety of comparatively minor infringements despite there being a desperate shortage of PCs at the time. They just wouldn't take a chance on anyone.
I do not condone her dishonesty in intentionally failing to pay for a ticket, but I do sense some naivety on her part when handling the situation with the revenue inspector. Having dug herself a hole by not purchasing a ticket, she then compounds the problem by admitting she had no intention of buying one. However dishonourable it may be, many people would try wiggle out of it by saying they were in a rush or had made a genuine mistake. Worse case scenario her elaborate story is not swallowed and she is fined and pays up. At some point along the line, perhaps when losing the battle with the revenue inspector, she has voluntarily disclosed her occupation in order to procure a more favourable outcome. That is obviously an abuse of position which, if you're lying through your teeth, is not the smartest move. She deserved to be punished as dishonesty has no place in policing.
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BestWestern
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Out of interest, do the police carry out periodical checks on their officers to identify and offences committed during their careers? Or does the CPS automatically flag it up with their respective force? Or indeed is it just up to the officer to be honest and disclose it?
Islineclear3_1
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One would hope that the police service carry out periodic checks - but nothing would surprise me if they didn't.
There was a debate on local radio last night as to whether her sacking was harsh. Indeed she broke the law and admitted that she would not pay the fare (which would have been frowned upon) but one does expect honesty and integrity from an officer of the law so perhaps they have made an example of her. I listened to much of the debate and there was the consensus that her sacking was the right thing to do
There was a debate on local radio last night as to whether her sacking was harsh. Indeed she broke the law and admitted that she would not pay the fare (which would have been frowned upon) but one does expect honesty and integrity from an officer of the law so perhaps they have made an example of her. I listened to much of the debate and there was the consensus that her sacking was the right thing to do
It depends. With things like railway fines the obligation would be on the officer to disclose it. Tickets and fines etc often get sent to your home address for you to fill out and send back. They're not 'recordable' offences so wouldn't show up on the Police National Computer.
If you're a police driver (i.e. you've had a police driving course) you would have to disclose any road traffic offences, as most forces have a yearly licence check so it would only go unnoticed for a short period.
If you were arrested and/or convicted of an offence at court then the onus on you to disclose would be taken away. You hold a 'notifiable occupation' and so the force would automatically find out.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Police Professional Standards departments are like the Stassi in many places, so I can assure you they'll be out for their pound of flesh if they get sniff of anything.
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BestWestern
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You could perhaps reasonably argue that, morally, her offence was no less serious than a minor shoplifing incident, for example. One wouldn't wish to have police officers who'd do that.
Having said that, I've seen tabloid page fillers listing various offences that serving officers have been found guilty of in the past, so presumably the rules are not absolute?
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Islineclear3_1
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Perhaps the call has come to remove corruption from the police force and its easier to pick on the probationers before they become fully fledged officers 
furnessvale
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Perhaps the call has come to remove corruption from the police force and its easier to pick on the probationers before they become fully fledged officers
In which case the call came 40+ years ago because that is the era I was talking about in my previous posting.
"....admitting that she had no intention of buying one."
When I was a TTI (B.R. speak for RPI) the technique after getting someone to cough to travelling without or short was to caution them (pre PACE days) then say, "I put it to you that you travelled between Shenfield and Ilford with the intention of avoiding paying for the journey". The inevitable answer would be "yes". So, when it went to the beak the prosecution would state that ......admitted to having no intent to pay the fare due.
I often think there are two general problems underpinning these types of things:
1) A lack of public awareness of just how seriously these types of issues are taken, and that fare evasion can lead to criminal conviction.
coupled with:
2) An emerged trait in Britain where a considerable number of people will try it on, cross boundaries and generally not behave if they think they can get away with it, with a very immature consideration of consequence and immature expressions of indignance when they are eventually pulled up about it. In short, they've been very badly brought up, and this crosses all "class" and income boundaries. The middle classes are probably the worst for it.
1 definitely should be addressed, because prevention is better than cure, but 1 wouldn't happen half as much if it wasn't for 2.
1) A lack of public awareness of just how seriously these types of issues are taken, and that fare evasion can lead to criminal conviction.
coupled with:
2) An emerged trait in Britain where a considerable number of people will try it on, cross boundaries and generally not behave if they think they can get away with it, with a very immature consideration of consequence and immature expressions of indignance when they are eventually pulled up about it. In short, they've been very badly brought up, and this crosses all "class" and income boundaries. The middle classes are probably the worst for it.
1 definitely should be addressed, because prevention is better than cure, but 1 wouldn't happen half as much if it wasn't for 2.
I am sure I would be equally high and mighty, snorting words like "integrity", "beyond reproach", "zero tolerance" and so on, if this were not against the backdrop of a huge decline in the overall calibre of our police forces. I don't so much blame the (BTP) officers on the front line, so much as I blame many of the inept and self interested senior ranks of inspectors and above, building their own careers protecting their backs by blindly applying equally poor Home Office Policy policy without any discretion, and though it isn't popular to say so, many senior ranks are getting promoted beyond their ability in order to fulfil a quota of some kind, not because they were best for the job. Without good support and sensible leadership inside the force and from the Home Office, too many good officers succumb to cynicism and disillusionment, and sometimes it is those with less ability ( save the ability to blindly apply rules no matter how inappropriate or unfair) who stay the course to fast track seniority.
blackfrost
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Ergh how stupid can you get? I would've thought in such situations she would've just flashed her badge and the revenue inspector officer wouldn't bother her anymore...
BestWestern
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Perhaps that's exactly what she did. Only in certain locations are certain forces' officer allowed to travel for free.
AlterEgo
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Yes, and this was a Northamptonshire PC in Somerset.
I find myself bemoaning the standard of policing constantly - perhaps sometimes unfairly - after all, new recruits are earning less than £20k for a life of paperwork and violence. However, I have no sympathy with her here.
Public servants - especially those like soldiers and police officers whose job it is to execute either the law or the will of the State in its name - must be held accountable.
No disrespect intended to current or former police officers, who I'm sure get justifiably sick of all the criticism about "bent coppers" - most police officers are good people trying to do a hard job to the best of their ability.
blackfrost
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I'm aware of that but in such a case as an RPI I would've exercised discretion. There's a number of things that can go wrong on board trains or at stations. So me personally I would've let the officer off...you never know if they may be useful as a "competent person"
Dr_Paul
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Not always the best idea... A pal of mine who used to work in the Foreign Office told me that diplomatic staff who try to use their official position as an excuse not to be held up at border-checks often have their luggage minutely searched and end up being excessively delayed. The moral is: don't try to take the mickey with public servants on duty by flaunting your credentials; they are seldom impressed.
AlterEgo
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I'm aware of that but in such a case as an RPI I would've exercised discretion. There's a number of things that can go wrong on board trains or at stations. So me personally I would've let the officer off...you never know if they may be useful as a "competent person"
To be honest, that makes you no better than the police officer here.
BestWestern
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I'm aware of that but in such a case as an RPI I would've exercised discretion. There's a number of things that can go wrong on board trains or at stations. So me personally I would've let the officer off...you never know if they may be useful as a "competent person"
Completely agree. But perhaps she had a poor attitude?
hulabaloo
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Surely by "flashing the badge" to get out of paying for a ticket is a sign of corruption? What next? Protection money on the quiet coach?
However,a recent FOI request to Surrey Police reveals:
Q3. What is the total number of serving police officers and police community support officers within your force who have a criminal conviction?
A3. 40 officers and PCSOs in total
So,as others have said I would think it was because she was a probationer and also the offence reflected her personal dishonesty?
I'm aware of that but in such a case as an RPI I would've exercised discretion. There's a number of things that can go wrong on board trains or at stations. So me personally I would've let the officer off...you never know if they may be useful as a "competent person"
Nonsense, an RPI's job is absolutely about practising discretion, not blindly enforcing the letter of the law 100% of the time that the opportunity to do so is offered.
In this particular case, I would lean toward supporting the actions taken at the time, but I would not rule out blackfrost's suggestion being correct.
All court proceedings are usually reported somewhere usually as a single paragraph e.g. Ms Frances Tilley was fined x and told to pay y in costs for z. However, someone picked up on Ms Frances Tilley being a trainee police officer and made a local news story of it. Note it's on a regional news section of the BBC site, not the national section.
I imagine being reportedly 'rude and abrupt' to a RPI didn't help either. I would think a PC would be expected to keep their cool even if a member of the public annoys them.
fredk
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I'm aware of that but in such a case as an RPI I would've exercised discretion. There's a number of things that can go wrong on board trains or at stations. So me personally I would've let the officer off...you never know if they may be useful as a "competent person"
So it's ok for police to commit offences that would land other people potentially months of stress, paperwork, and a fine?
Bull.
RichmondCommu
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I have no sympathy for the young lady, her attitude was disgraceful and she deserved to get the sack. My wife is a serving Police Officer and without gaining the trust of the general public she couldn't do her job. What that young lady did undermines the public's trust of the Police.
I bet you would like to be on the good end of discretion if a police officer caught you doing something you shouldn't such as driving just over speed limit.
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