There is potentially 2-3 years between completion of wires to Corby and bi modes entering service, so there is time to upgrade south of Bedford without risking missing the Corby target to do so. An unussually sensible decision from DfT!
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MML Electrification: progress updates
- Thread starter LNW-GW Joint
- Start date
There is potentially 2-3 years between completion of wires to Corby and bi modes entering service, so there is time to upgrade south of Bedford without risking missing the Corby target to do so. An unussually sensible decision from DfT!
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R
RailUK Forums
Well the reunification of the GC is now "future proofed" as the main bridge deck beams are in place across the MML.
Re the actual electrification of the MML, what is the possibility of progressively installing OHLE on the "easy" open sections of the line, and put non live or 6.25kV, where clearances are reduced? Then the Bi Modes could be running much more as electric only, with cost/environment benefits.
So it is "Creeping Electrification" rather than big bang, whole route or nothing.
There are no classes of rolling stock available in the UK that could use 6.25kV OLE, - nor will there likely be in the future.
Class 170101
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Perhaps its the angle of the shot decieving me but that looks low for stringing OLE underneath it?
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Looks to me like a good couple of metres between the top of the train and the bottom of the bridge.
InTheEastMids
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Bedford-Kettering-Corby Improvements:
Kettering-Corby re-doubling: NR have applied to Kettering Borough Council to install a number of new signals at Kettering Station (it is a Grade II Listed building)
http://www.kettering.gov.uk/planningApplication/127080
Electrification: Braybrooke Substation (just South of Market Harborough) - this is supposed to be a 400/25 kV substation.
No I don't know what this tweet actually means:
https://twitter.com/hfmnews/status/916262736199344129
Question is whether NR will link this substation to the electrified railway via a lineside feeder cable, or actually extend the electrification to Braybrooke (and then whether all the re-building through Harborough makes it worthwhile to go that bit further North).
Kettering-Corby re-doubling: NR have applied to Kettering Borough Council to install a number of new signals at Kettering Station (it is a Grade II Listed building)
http://www.kettering.gov.uk/planningApplication/127080
Electrification: Braybrooke Substation (just South of Market Harborough) - this is supposed to be a 400/25 kV substation.
No I don't know what this tweet actually means:
https://twitter.com/hfmnews/status/916262736199344129
Question is whether NR will link this substation to the electrified railway via a lineside feeder cable, or actually extend the electrification to Braybrooke (and then whether all the re-building through Harborough makes it worthwhile to go that bit further North).
westcoaster
Established Member
Also if you look at there previous application, lots of info in here, http://www.kettering.gov.uk/planx_downloads/0301.2017.KET.ApF.100417.pdf
100andthirty
Member
It's not the EC that's lumbered us with increased clearances. Indeed EC rail officials - many of them Brits - went out of their way to make sure that the UK clearances could be maintained. The increase is entirely home grown. Indeed a lot of what appears to be EC nonsense is actually that way the UK has chosen to implement the directives.
That can't be stressed too strongly. Not just with regard to railways but in a whole host of areas the British civil service seems to have delighted in taking an extremely literalist approach to all European regulations and going by the letter whenever possible. Other countries—and for some surprising reason it's always France that it cited—have been willing to look much more "creatively" at these things.
Could it just be that Whitehall is all composed of closet Brexiteers, all determined to give the EU the worst possible reputation in this country?
fflint
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Can I ask if Corby has only recently (within the last few years) had a service to London and now will receive a better service than some towns further north?
I bet they are really happy to see this happening
I bet they are really happy to see this happening
DarloRich
Veteran Member
what point are you making?
The answer is no.
Corby currently has an hourly service to London - the aspiration is that will become a half-hourly service.
The Corby services stop at Kettering, Wellingborough, Bedford and one of the Luton stations (can't remember which off hand).
All of those stations have long received 2 MML / EMT trains an hour - certainly ever since MML introduced the Turbostars.
What *has* changed as a result of Corby is the reduction in frequency for those places to Market Harborough and beyond, because the Corby service replaced one of the northbound Nottingham services IIRC. So the loss has been to Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough and Kettering of a half-hourly service to Leicester and beyond as it was dropped to hourly.
Depending on how the proposed change pans out - Kettering might go back to having a half-hourly to Harborough and Leicester, but Luton, Bedford and Wellingborough would lose out and instead passengers would have to change a Kettering.
I've long cautioned against those who were keen on electrification of this route because you only need to look at other comparable routes for the type of services and units they get. Electrification would almost inevitably mean a loss of the Inter City style stock to Wellingborough etc and replacement with EMUs a la London Midland or WAGN. The problem with that is the fares from Wellingborough to London are about 40% higher than they are from Northampton or St Neots for example, so currently that differential can be justified by the better stock - that looks like it will go.
Corby is in the middle of a massive expansion that will aproximately double the population and this will increase demand for trains to London. Its nearer to London than Leicester and I think clearence work had already started when electrification plans were scaled back.
HSTEd
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I think its a cultural difference.
In Britain the law is supreme and is to be obeyed above all.
In much of continental europe it is really not.
Corby is a good point to turn the inner services, which with 60-70 minute journey times and no major business centres at the end, do not need inter-city type stock. Outer suburban is fine, although I do agree on the fares.
Really St Pancras needs 6tph out of there - 2 fast, 2 semi and 2 Corby. Other markets like Melton/Oakham could be explored on more detail too, as could a Manchester service, I've always thought.
Really St Pancras needs 6tph out of there - 2 fast, 2 semi and 2 Corby. Other markets like Melton/Oakham could be explored on more detail too, as could a Manchester service, I've always thought.
I think I read somewhere recently that Oakham and Melton Mowbray are going to lose their very limited service to/from London once the electric services start running to Corby.
I can see the reason for electrifying to Corby but I have always felt that for the small numbers of passengers who currently travel off peak between Kettering and Corby it has been a bit of a waste of a 222 over the last few years. I have also often thought that a connection from Kettering to Coby using a 156, or even a 153 Off Peak, would have been enough. An hourly Leicester to Kettering service calling at Melton, Oakham and Corby could have been a good idea. This would have given Corby its connection to London at Kettering and also provided a link to London from Melton and Oakham. Also it would have provided additional services between Leicester and Melton/Oakham.
I couldn't agree more. I've been doubtful about the merit of an hourly service to Corby ever since it started. The town may be set to expand in the future and I don't doubt it will warrant an enhanced service when that happens but I can't see that demand has been there hitherto. I've often passed through Kettering on the main lines and noted a Corby service in the adjacent platforms with pax numbers in single figures.
I remember the first station with the single line and the DMU shuttle service, since then a huge amount of money must have been expended on complete relaying and redoubling, new station and new junctions etc. and it's seemed like a project which grew out of proportion and became unstoppable. I'm still inclined to think that the EMU service would be sufficient to terminate at Kettering.
I suggested it could be an extension of the current slow Nottingham to Leicester service. For a single extra 156 on the route you could have a service to Corby from Leicester.
InTheEastMids
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I'm struggling a little to see why this service would be useful to many people.
If it's connecting Melton/Oakham to London, well it's already a bit quicker to go via Peterborough - I think EMT only offer this service because it generates a bit more income for what would otherwise be an ECS/route knowledge manoeuvre that they'd have to do anyway.
If it's connecting Corby to Leicester, then it still seems weak to me: Melton-Corby + Melton-Leicester gives 50 minutes. Whilst Corby to Leicester is generally 1h 30 on NRE, there is a connection of 44 mins, so the problem is connecting in Kettering, which electrification/re-cast timetable should help with
That's a TBC - but EMT use the Corby / Harringworth services to maintain route knowledge as it's the diversion route if there are engineering works between Kettering and Leicester. You may find EMT retain a couple of services in order to maintain route knowledge.
Agreed - there seems to be a view that the best way to serve Croby to Leicester is direct, whereas changing at Kettering is probably quicker assuming sensible connections.
That would mean services from Corby north are there to either maintain route knowledge - which is a valid reason for one or two a day - or to provide a link from Corby to Oakham and Melton - for which I doubt there is any real demand. Neither Oakham nor Melton are that significant as destinations. Now if there were a south curve at Manton, I *could* see a justification for running a service beyond Corby to Peterborough, but I'm not sure that's likely to happen and there's no way the costs of constructing such a curve with the associated re-signalling will ever be viable.
InTheEastMids
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Braybrooke Substation:
National Grid have put in a planning application for the 400/25 kV bulk supply point South of Market Harborough. They've had to apply to both Kettering & Harborough Planning Authority because although the substation is in Kettering's area, parts of the access road need consent from Harborough.
Can't find a planning ref for Kettering on their Portal, but Harborough is 17/01679/FUL and the Location Plan is probably the most informative.
Can only assume NR will put in their own cable between Braybrooke and Kettering North/Glendon area to hook it up to the actual electrification, as an earlier application to Kettering Borough Council (KET/2017/0301) specifically talks about a feeder station with a grid reference where the Corby line diverges from the MML.
National Grid have put in a planning application for the 400/25 kV bulk supply point South of Market Harborough. They've had to apply to both Kettering & Harborough Planning Authority because although the substation is in Kettering's area, parts of the access road need consent from Harborough.
Can't find a planning ref for Kettering on their Portal, but Harborough is 17/01679/FUL and the Location Plan is probably the most informative.
Can only assume NR will put in their own cable between Braybrooke and Kettering North/Glendon area to hook it up to the actual electrification, as an earlier application to Kettering Borough Council (KET/2017/0301) specifically talks about a feeder station with a grid reference where the Corby line diverges from the MML.
Robertj21a
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Doubt there's much demand for a Corby to Leicester service, there isn't even a bus service nowadays.
edwin_m
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Corby to London is going to generate more demand than Corby to Leicester simply because London is so much bigger. If the timetable is worked out properly it ought to provide decent connections at Kettering, and at least with Corby trains being half-hourly there is less time to wait if one is missed.
Class 170101
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I would suggest you are being naive in suggesting the fares will reduce if the intercity stock is replaced by EMUs. That would reduce either profits for the operator or premium payments to the DfT. Can' see either happening.
richieb1971
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Has there ever been a consideration for the Corby trains to go carry on going north and loop round to Leicester? Changing at Leicester provides a lot more connections than Kettering and the train has already reversed itself automatically for a trip back to St Pancras. I'm sure it will add quite a few minutes to the journey to Leicester. I know its not many people, but how many people want to travel directly to Corby from Leicester and vice versa? If there was a 20 minute change at Kettering I'm guessing going round Corby to Leicester would be thereabouts the same timetable to Leicester?
Doing the loop round to Leicester makes much better use of the train as the return leg will see an increased use of capacity of the train. Swings and roundabouts.
Doing the loop round to Leicester makes much better use of the train as the return leg will see an increased use of capacity of the train. Swings and roundabouts.
ChiefPlanner
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Very wasteful use of resources - stock and crews , and likely to be carrying much fresh air.* (there will be a need for a minimal service of maybe 1 each way a day to keep up train crew knowledge for diversion purposes)
* as now - never seen double figures on the few that go that way....
richieb1971
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I don't think it will be that bad. If the north lost a train due to the Corby route being initiated and that has concerned Leicester passengers this could reinstate another train as far north as Leicester per hour.
ChiefPlanner
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Just mulling - the need to provide a 2 tph Market Harborough to Leicester is good for them , if not for fast trains calling there to give the link - would a Kettering - Nottingham slow meet this requirement , giving scope for a genuine fast London - Leicester and beyond. ?