I thought that a power upgrade had been completed and trhose were the pre upgrade limits.
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Class 387 to GN
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I thought that a power upgrade had been completed and trhose were the pre upgrade limits.
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TheDavibob
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I think it's getting there, the latest NR Enhancements Delivery Plan (pp 27-28) suggests extra power will be available from November next year, though I don't know what that translates to train-wise.
I think they have quite a few wheel flats given the clackety clack noise from some. As you say, the ones that are going may not be receiving as much TLC.
bramling
Veteran Member
Yea had one of those too last week going home, had to be a day when I had a right headache too! No doubt more to come being that time of year, although with the fleet working less intensively than in past years they should be able to get put right quicker.
bramling
Veteran Member
I've done some digging on this, but am still none really the wiser. It seems the issue was originally that with Milton FS being out for any reason the gap between feeder stations becomes too great. Not an issue for the original Fen Line service of the early 1990s, but clearly a potential issue today with more and longer trains north of Milton. However, it seems Milton has at some point been upgraded to a double-circuit FS, thus reducing the likelihood of an outage. Maybe there is still other work required to be completed, or maybe is what happens if another FS has to come out of service for any reason. It does seem that the issue is not with the normal service in normal running, but what could happen if an item of plant is out. This sort of arrangement seems to have been relatively common with 1980s electrifications, I think the Hastings line had a similar issue, and other electrification like East Grinstead have required reinforcement subsequently. One shouldn't knock the designers though, designing down to a specification allowed the electrifications to get approval, and if it hadn't been done that way then it probably wouldn't have happened at all, such is life.
There are a few units which seem to have rather suddenly got very ropey inside. Oddly a few still haven't received the full refresh (such as the new toilets) despite the programme being started by FCC! Quite a few are pretty poor inside with seat covers coming off, side panels torn, broken internal doors, missing or seriously bodged panels etc. Then there are also other units which are near immaculate inside, fully refreshed and everything working perfectly.
I hope we keep the decent ones but wouldn't be surprised if we keep the ropey ones!
Failed Unit
Established Member
I wonder if they must be return to the leasing company in a useable start. I know other things I personally would lease should be returned in a condition “only reasonable wear and tear” or i would get charged to bring it back to standard. Remember last year some of the 317s were refreshed and only back on the line for days before they were returned.
notverydeep
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Is it me, or do 387s have better wheel slide protection (WSP) than other types on GN? Several mornings lately the GN email message I receive has listed trains as being delayed by slippery rails. Almost all of the workings concerned are 313 or 365 diagrams (the email only covers trains to / from Welwyn Garden City). However my normal train in the morning - 2T93 07:20 Cambridge North to King's Cross has not been affected thus far.
Sadly this morning 2T93 was short formed and rammed - at least that can't happen with 700s. To be fair to GTR, this is a pretty rare occurrence, though the train has been prone to complete cancellation a times in recent months. Acceleration today seemed normal, though braking was jerky suggesting some WSP activity.
Sadly this morning 2T93 was short formed and rammed - at least that can't happen with 700s. To be fair to GTR, this is a pretty rare occurrence, though the train has been prone to complete cancellation a times in recent months. Acceleration today seemed normal, though braking was jerky suggesting some WSP activity.
bramling
Veteran Member
The Electrostar should certainly be a little better on account of the design being more up-to-date. However the WSP on the 365s doesn't seem bad at all, especially with braking. The Electrostar may have a slight advantage in having three motored cars instead of two - though I'm not convinced three motored bogies spread over four cars should necessarily be much better than four spread over two cars.
I'd say it's more likely performance is affected more on what the individual service is, how early in the day, how long since the previous train through the section, whether it's booked for 8 cars or 4 cars, how skilled the driver is, etc. One thing that is pretty certain, both the 365s and 387s are a lot better than 317s/321s in poor adhesion, especially if it's a 4-car.
As for 2T93, that's the one which currently comes off Hornsey, runs ECS to King's Cross, before running in service KX to Cambridge North. It's an eccentric way of arranging things as the run from KX never existed prior to the May timetable change. Presumably they wanted the two units in Hornsey overnight, and rather than run ECS to Cambridge North someone felt it would be worthwhile to run an extra service. The risk is there's more to go wrong compared with when it was 317s which simply came off Cambridge sidings. Not knocking the extra service off KX though, I've used it a few times, although it doesn't exactly load well - I've had a carriage to myself every time I've used it.
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bramling
Veteran Member
A lot of people would hope GN keeps *all* of them!
People aren't going to appreciate having to sit at 45 degrees in the window seats on the 700s. The reaction when the first one turns up at Hitchin, Welwyn North or Royston will be a sight to see.
Failed Unit
Established Member
A lot happier now on a Saturday when a 387 turns up and I can’t physically get on board. Hehe
bramling
Veteran Member
As we know, there's no need for this situation to arise now.
The KX - Peterborough slow trains could already have been eight cars, albeit requiring five extra diagrams. Many of the weekday KX - Peterborough slow trains have gone up to eight cars in the current timetable, although as we know weekdays wasn't really the issue (not that the extra length isn't welcome though!).
A different solution would have been required for the Cambridge services, but there are still things which could have been done. The Cambridge - KX slow service could run fast from Hitchin to King's Cross with a separate Letchworth to King's Cross slow service formed of two units, for example.
The explosion in weekend demand seemed to go unnoticed for many years, especially on the slow services. Must admit I don't fully understand where all this demand has come from, most people I know who work in London want to be as far away as possible from the place at the weekend! It doesn't help that the route seems to attract some particularly arrogant types at the weekend, who turn up for their once-in-a-while-when-the-weather-is nice train experience and expect everything to be laid on specially for their needs, I've never seen a squabble over table seats M-F, yet it's quite common at weekends...
They've had this for a while but there are still some with the old system and when coupled up they don't work. I guess there's no need to fix as they'll all be done, or maybe not as half are going (you'd hope these are the ones that didn't get done!).
I also saw that some 365s have their numbers in a different font? Well, one. 365 536 or 538 I think.
I also saw that some 365s have their numbers in a different font? Well, one. 365 536 or 538 I think.
Yes, sadly only 19 of the 40 units are being kept on GN to operate services in the peaks.
I live in hope of a 442 style renaissance...
TT-ONR-NRN
Established Member
I don’t, trust me. The sooner they’re gone the better, same with any 31x (except 7)
Oh ,were are the other 21 units going to go, what units will replace them(700s?)
I love the refreshed 365’s though,21 units will be missed,but also love the 700#(there will be replacements?
No-one knows where the 365s will end up. The original plan was for them to go to GWR but they don’t need them now as they’ve got 387s.
In summary the 387s allowed the 317s and 321s to be withdrawn. In the future the 387s will work the Cambridge Express and Kings Lynn services.
Everything else will be 700s (due to the services running through the core) except the additional peak extras that will be in the hands of the 365s.
In summary the 387s allowed the 317s and 321s to be withdrawn. In the future the 387s will work the Cambridge Express and Kings Lynn services.
Everything else will be 700s (due to the services running through the core) except the additional peak extras that will be in the hands of the 365s.
D365
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The services being diverted to Thameslink (Class 700) will come under the Thameslink brand. Everything else (Classes 365, 387, 717) remains Great Northern.
Not at 24tph (although there are doubts as to whether or not the 700s will be able of doing that either!). And it's worth pointing out that the 707s are the SWR Desiro Cities, the Moorgate services will be operated by 717s, which look fairly different to the other 2 fleets.
Oh yes, I stand corrected there.
Ok,that’s clarified that.
class387
Established Member
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Why? Or just trying to be controversial?
(Something tells me we've already had this argument before)
We’ve had this discussion before and you were confused about the 365s believing they have 3+2 seating that they’ve never had.....
Ah yes, those horrid diesel loco hauled 365s with compartments and slam doors...
bramling
Veteran Member
If you’re referring to the unit numbers on the front, this is normally a tell-tale sign that the end in question has had some kind of accident repair!
bramling
Veteran Member
hi, ive noticeing 365's are having new P.IS fitted now,some have it fitted and operational,the announcements seem to use the same voice as TL 700's lady/man? 387's ,do they now only work kings lyn services?
There are some other posts in this thread which go into full detail, but in essence everything to Kings Lynn is 387, but they also do other trips to/from Ely, Cambridge North, Cambridge, Royston, Letchworth, Peterborough and Welwyn, but mixed with 365s based on diagramming convenience. They’re more biased towards the Cambridge line though.
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