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Educational season ticket - valid at weekends?

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r37

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I have an educational rail season ticket which I use almost daily, including weekends. I had assumed that the ticket was valid at weekends (and half term) because it works the barriers and I haven't been able to find any terms and conditions which say it can't be used at weekends.

However, I have heard that guards will be "cracking down" on people who use their tickets at weekends, so this makes me think that it's actually not valid and I've been making a mistake.

Could anyone provide me with official terms and conditions or something similar which states I can't use this ticket at weekends and half term? I've searched around but I can't find anything. Since it works the barriers I would think it's strange if it turned out not to be valid.

Thanks very much.
 

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r37

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Thank you all for your replies. Since nobody has been able to find anything concrete which will answer my question, I have sent an email to SWR asking them. I'm hoping I will get a proper answer!
 
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Joe Paxton

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r37 said:
Thank you all for your replies. Since nobody has been able to find anything concrete which will answer my question, I have sent an email to SWR asking them. I'm hoping I will get a proper answer!
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"Thank you for your enquiry. We can confirm that a valid Railcard must be held at all times when making a journey with a Railcard discounted ticket. Accompanied dogs do not require their own ticket. Unaccompanied dogs may be destroyed by the obscurity services. We hope you enjoy your journey with South Western Railway."
 
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Romilly

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If the OP's season ticket is one purchased with a one-third discount because the OP holds a Surrey County Council "train student fare card", then the conditions applicable appear to be as follows:

Train student fare card
Please read our full term and conditions before applying. Note that student fare cards ordered today will expire on 31 August 2018.

Apply for train student fare card

  • The card allows 16-18 year old Surrey students in full-time education to buy a season ticket (only for travel to and from home and school/college) at a reduced rate of 1/3 off the standard adult cost.
  • Season tickets are available for seven days (minimum), one month and between one month and one year.
  • Single and return tickets bought with the card can only be used for leisure journeys after 6pm during the week and at weekends.
  • The card costs £25.
  • It is valid from the date of issue until 31 August 2018 (for applications made after 1 August 2017).
Click to expand...

The link is at: https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/schools...ool-or-college/student-fare-card-scheme#train

If that is what the OP has, the answer is that the discounted season ticket is only for travel from home to school/college and back again: discounted singles and returns may be bought for weekday evening, or weekend, leisure journeys. NB the conditions do not say that the discounted season ticket can't be used for evening or weekend journeys between home or school (e.g. coming home late following an after-school activity, or going to/from school for Saturday sports), but expect to be challenged if not in school uniform or not carrying school games kit.

On the Southern Railways website, the scheme is referred to as the Surrey Student Transport Partnership, although the links to the Surrey County Council website don't work.
 
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jkdd77

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The summary of the conditions say that the discounted season ticket is valid only for 'commuting', but the full, official T & Cs: https://www.surreycc.gov.uk/schools...eme/conditions-of-use-for-a-student-fare-card
make no mention of any such restriction, except to observe, in Condition 3, that travel is subject to the NRCoT, which itself expressly permits unlimited journeys using season tickets.
NRCoT said:
36.2 A Season Ticket gives you the right to unlimited travel between specific stations or within specific geographic zones during the period up to and including the Season Ticket’s expiry date. This includes the right to start, break or resume your journey, as described in Condition 16.4. It may only be used by the person to whom, or on whose behalf, it was issued
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My view is that the wording of the official T & Cs, which form part of the contract for travel, takes precedence over the conflicting summary, which does not form part of the contract for travel, and that, even if there is ambiguity, which I dispute, the passenger is nevertheless entitled, under the principle of contra proferentem, under the Consumer Rights Act 2015, and under the wording of the NRCoT itself, to the benefit of the most favourable interpretation.

In short, I am confident in stating that the ticket is valid for use in this manner.
 
Harbouring

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It looks unlikely to be the scheme above IMO. Use of XC and SWR suggests use of trains somewhere between Basingstoke and Bournemouth. It is more likely to be a perhaps a season ticket purchase through a FE college? Therefore the T&C's might be available through them.
 
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r37

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Harbouring said:
It is more likely to be a perhaps a season ticket purchase through a FE college? Therefore the T&C's might be available through them.
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I have looked at the T&Cs given by my college but they are quite vague, and I'm not sure that a guard would accept them if I got asked about it to be honest. Thanks though!
 
bb21

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Quoting from the Knowledgebase, the general terms of a scholar season ticket are:

Knowledgebase; Season Tickets; Scholar Season Tickets said:
Scholar Season Tickets

Offices authorised to sell Scholars' Season Tickets will be provided with full instructions.

Unless otherwise advertised or stipulated on the ticket, Scholar Season Tickets are valid for travel in the evenings, at weekends and other times outside of the normal opening hours of the educational establishment.

Passenger's Charter discounts are not applied to Scholars' Season Tickets
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Nevertheless the terms of the Surrey CC Train student fare card makes it quite clear that the season ticket is "only for travel to and from home and school/college" (ie. travelling back home from college late following an after-school club is fine, going into town for a night out is not). There is no ambiguity. The specific term overrides the general terms of the ticket. When you bought the season ticket, you not only accepted the NRCoC, you also accepted the specific terms which apply to this ticket.

I suggest that you obey these instructions and purchase discounted single/return fares for other travel needs.
 
Harbouring

Harbouring

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But it might not be a Surrey CC student fare card? Especially as the OP has indicated they bought the season ticket direct from the place of learning whereas the card referenced above needs to be bought via Surrey cc
 
bb21

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Harbouring said:
But it might not be a Surrey CC student fare card? Especially as the OP has indicated they bought the season ticket direct from the place of learning whereas the card referenced above needs to be bought via Surrey cc
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I missed that.

If not, then please ignore.
 
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Romilly

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To avoid confusion, the Surrey CC train student fare card is a £25 annual card that proves entitlement to buy discounted season and other tickets: the card itself is not a ticket. The card can be applied for online, but is provided to scholars by being sent to their school or college.
 
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r37

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Sorry, I think I might have caused some confusion here - I should have explained in my first post. I bought the season ticket through my college and it isn't a Surrey CC card. :smile:

bb21 said:
Scholar Season Tickets

Offices authorised to sell Scholars' Season Tickets will be provided with full instructions.

Unless otherwise advertised or stipulated on the ticket, Scholar Season Tickets are valid for travel in the evenings, at weekends and other times outside of the normal opening hours of the educational establishment.

Passenger's Charter discounts are not applied to Scholars' Season Tickets
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. Do you think you'd be able to give me a link to where you found this as I can't seem to find it anywhere!
 
bb21

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r37 said:
Thank you for this. Do you think you'd be able to give me a link to where you found this as I can't seem to find it anywhere!
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No, sorry. It's an internal source.

What do the terms of your ticket given by your college say?

If you can PM me your ticket details, I'll get a contact to have a look.
 
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r37

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bb21 said:
No, sorry. It's an internal source.

What do the terms of your ticket given by your college say?

If you can PM me your ticket details, I'll get a contact to have a look.
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Now I think I'm being a bit silly but I'm relatively new here and I've never actually sent a PM. I just can't work out how to do it! :lol: Please could you show me?
 
higthomas

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r37 said:
Thank you for this. Do you think you'd be able to give me a link to where you found this as I can't seem to find it anywhere!
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You can find a publicly accessible old version of it here. Although of course what bb21 said earlier remains true.
 
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jkdd77

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bb21 said:
Quoting from the Knowledgebase, the general terms of a scholar season ticket are:

Nevertheless the terms of the Surrey CC Train student fare card makes it quite clear that the season ticket is "only for travel to and from home and school/college" (ie. travelling back home from college late following an after-school club is fine, going into town for a night out is not). There is no ambiguity. The specific term overrides the general terms of the ticket. When you bought the season ticket, you not only accepted the NRCoC, you also accepted the specific terms which apply to this ticket.

I suggest that you obey these instructions and purchase discounted single/return fares for other travel needs.
Click to expand...
This may not be directly relevant to the OP now, but, for the benefit of other readers, they do not make it clear at all; the full version of the *actual* T & Cs states:
A student fare card will only be issued to a student aged 16 but under 19 on 1 September in the year of application, who is a resident in the administrative County of Surrey and attending a full time education course on the date of issue.
  1. The student fare card is not transferable and is not valid if altered or defaced.
  2. It can only be used by the person to whom it is issued, bearing a true likeness of the holder. It remains the property of Surrey County Council and must be surrendered if the person stops attending a full time education course.
  3. A Surrey train student fare card and tickets issued in conjunction with it are subject to the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.
  4. Purchase of a train student fare card is deemed as acceptance of these conditions.
  5. Any breach of the conditions will result in the withdrawal of the Fare Card and render the holder liable to prosecution.
  6. A season ticket must be purchased (minimum seven days). Daily single and return tickets are only available after 6pm and at weekends for leisure journeys. These cannot be used for travel to/from school/college.
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There is nothing in the actual Surrey CC Train fare card T & Cs (which form part of the contract for travel), as distinct from the so-called "summary" (which does not form part of the contract for travel), prohibiting the use of the season ticket *itself* for non-commuting journeys, although discounted daily single and return tickets cannot be used for commuting. Therefore, there is no ambiguity, and Condition 36.2 of the NRCoT unquestionably applies.
 
tsr

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If there is an absence of consensus on the correct advice, then when travelling (if it's XC or SWR), there will be some sort of guard or train manager who should be able to help. Ask first, don't wait for them to come and find you. Provided you make a good first impression and you're willing to pay for an extra ticket if you need to, most staff will treat you fairly. In fact, to be honest, they may be pleasantly surprised that someone has gone to the trouble of finding them, just to check that their ticket can be used on a specific day within its validity.
 
bb21

bb21

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jkdd77 said:
This may not be directly relevant to the OP now, but, for the benefit of other readers, they do not make it clear at all; the full version of the *actual* T & Cs states:

There is nothing in the actual Surrey CC Train fare card T & Cs (which form part of the contract for travel), as distinct from the so-called "summary" (which does not form part of the contract for travel), prohibiting the use of the season ticket *itself* for non-commuting journeys, although discounted daily single and return tickets cannot be used for commuting. Therefore, there is no ambiguity, and Condition 36.2 of the NRCoT unquestionably applies.
Click to expand...

I most certainly do not agree with your interpretation, but I think I will leave it at that. You are entitled to your view and I doubt you will be persuaded.
 
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r37

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I have recieved a reply from SWR today. It says, essentially, that the ticket is valid all the time:

Dear xxx xxx,

Thank you for your email of 31 October 2017. I am sorry for the delay in responding. Due to an increased amount of correspondence, we have been unable to reply as quickly as normal.

I note that you are enquiring with regards to the validity of Scholars season tickets outside of the normal educational times. Please see below an extract from the National rail terms and conditions of use.

Unless otherwise advertised or stipulated on the ticket, Scholar Season Tickets are valid for travel in the evenings, at weekends and other times outside of the normal opening hours of the educational establishment.

Passenger's Charter discounts are not applied to Scholars' Season Tickets.

Thank you again for contacting South Western Railway.

Kind regards,

Karen Hein
Customer Service Centre Advisor
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I have heard from a friend of a friend that their guard insisted that they buy a new ticket when travelling at the weekend, and that their scholar season wasn't valid. Would there be any chance of them being able to get the fare back or is it not worth bothering with?
 
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