New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

Goldfish62 · 14 Nov 2017

SWT_USER said:
that is awful! Some marketing bod will be tearing their hair out, branding is everything!

May as well just have used a white vinyl. While colour matching between paint and vinyl is always difficult, that is not remotely close. It would look far better if the SWT vinyls were steamed off and replaced like-for-like with SWR.

RailUK Forums

Kite159 · 14 Nov 2017

Judging by Twitter, it seems the RMT are not happy with the 444s & 450s keeping First Class areas

RMT exposes Grayling first class fiasco as he green lights new luxury carriages on South Western Railway.

Rail union RMT today exposed yet another Chris Grayling fiasco as his pledge to phase out First Class travel on London commuter routes just four months ago turned to dust as it emerged that new rolling stock on South Western Railway will include luxury, pimped-up carriages for those that can afford to pay.

In a statement, South Western Railway says that "as part of its £1.2bn investment plans, it has signed contracts worth £50m with Siemens to refurbish its existing 172-strong Class 444 and Class 450 Desiro fleet of trains, which currently operate across the SWR network."

With the centre piece being “additional benefits for First Class customers [which] include new leather seats and new tables incorporating innovative inductive charging. The programme is expected to take around 12 months to complete."

The news flies in the face of a pledge made by the Transport Secretary as recently as July this year where he said that he would be phasing out first class services on London commuter routes to help tackle the severe over-crowding which is an everyday feature for passengers forking out thousands of pounds a year for their season tickets.

RMT General Secretary Mick Cash said:

“This is yet another example of the chaos and warped priorities under Chris Grayling and the Tory Government.

“First he said he was getting rid of first class services on London commuter routes and now he has flip flopped and first class is getting plush new leather seats while passengers paying a fortune to travel in standard carriages are rammed in like cattle without even the safety back up of a guaranteed guard. It's a disgrace.

“If South Western Railway can afford luxury leather seats and other bells and whistles for the well-heeled then they can afford to keep guards on their trains and if Chris Grayling can u-turn so sharply on first class travel pledges then he can reverse his drive to throw the guards off our trains.”

ENDS

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-exposes-grayling-first-class-fiasco/

And there was me thinking the only new rolling stock will be standard class only suburban stock, unless the RMT are confusing the 442s as being new trains. I've seen services departing Waterloo in the high peaks and First Class seems to be well used, especially on those 444s which are fast to Winchester. And unlike some TOCs where 1st class is pretty much the same as Standard Class, at least First Class on the 444s/450s is different enough to warrant those high earners in the city to pay extra to get a table seat to be able to work.

Bookd · 14 Nov 2017

Are the 444 and 450 capable of running without a guard (even after refurbishment, apart from SWR having said that they won't)?
If not the comment by Mick Cash is irrelevant and shows that he will find a way of objecting to anything by way of development.

infobleep · 14 Nov 2017

Kite159 said:
However isn't there a plan to involve more 455+455+456 formations making use of the extended platforms at Waterloo?

TEW said:
455+456+456 formations finish in December. Chertsey has had platform extensions so now takes a 10-car 707, there are no platforms shorter than 6 coaches in length now. 456+456 formations on the Ascot line should be finished by the end of the month.

Will first class return to thr Ascot line once it's all 450s again?

TEW · 14 Nov 2017

infobleep said:
Will first class return to thr Ascot line once it's all 450s again?

The December 2017 timetables on the SWR website show Guildford-Ascot services as having First Class accommodation again.

Starmill · 14 Nov 2017

A vital service, no doubt. I am sure the locals will be very pleased to have it back again so they can enjoy abusing it :lol:

theironroad · 14 Nov 2017

Bookd said:
Are the 444 and 450 capable of running without a guard (even after refurbishment, apart from SWR having said that they won't)?
If not the comment by Mick Cash is irrelevant and shows that he will find a way of objecting to anything by way of development.

Not really. There are inoperative door controls on driver desk (have been there and unused since new) which would allow easy opening but no in cab CCTV footage closing and poor cab design would mean every station would have to have station staff at cab for depsatch which isn't about to happen as many stations 444s stop at are unstaffed and rural.

Many 444s run Waterloo to Weymouth and vv which is currently at least 2h35+ so they are not purely commuter trains.

TT-ONR-NRN · 14 Nov 2017

Starmill said:
A vital service, no doubt. I am sure the locals will be very pleased to have it back again so they can enjoy abusing it

What do you mean?! I’m a Farnham resident and only sit in first class on that line if it is declassified or if I’ve got a first class ticket!

TEW · 15 Nov 2017

15 minute Delay Repay to be introduced on the SWR franchise from the 1st December.

Goldfish62 · 15 Nov 2017

Kite159 said:
Judging by Twitter, it seems the RMT are not happy with the 444s & 450s keeping First Class areas

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-exposes-grayling-first-class-fiasco/

And there was me thinking the only new rolling stock will be standard class only suburban stock, unless the RMT are confusing the 442s as being new trains. I've seen services departing Waterloo in the high peaks and First Class seems to be well used, especially on those 444s which are fast to Winchester. And unlike some TOCs where 1st class is pretty much the same as Standard Class, at least First Class on the 444s/450s is different enough to warrant those high earners in the city to pay extra to get a table seat to be able to work.

Judging by his description of 1st Class that numpty Cash doesn't travel by train much.

TT-ONR-NRN · 15 Nov 2017

Whoever said about the proposed 450 first class seats looking like Ryanair they couldn’t be more right! :lol:

Malcolmffc · 15 Nov 2017

TEW said:
15 minute Delay Repay to be introduced on the SWR franchise from the 1st December.

Great news if true - got a source?

TEW · 15 Nov 2017

Malcolmffc said:
Great news if true - got a source?

Nothing public yet, but I expect you will see stuff about it soon.

swt_passenger · 15 Nov 2017

Bookd said:
Are the 444 and 450 capable of running without a guard (even after refurbishment, apart from SWR having said that they won't)?
If not the comment by Mick Cash is irrelevant and shows that he will find a way of objecting to anything by way of development.

He seems to be confusing the Portsmouth service with a London suburban commuter route. Well it is a commuter route to some extent, but it isn't the sort of route Grayling was actually on about. No doubt RMT are well aware that the Aventra fleet for use on suburban routes, and the whole Windsor side service including Reading, will be standard class only, as that has been published by SWR.

But if the RMT view is that first class is wrong on journeys the length (and for the time taken) of the Portsmouth Direct, then there are far more possible targets out there...

Goldfish62 · 15 Nov 2017

Malcolmffc said:
Great news if true - got a source?

December is no secret. SWR have stated it on many occasions. The sooner the better, obviously.

The Ham · 15 Nov 2017

swt_passenger said:
He seems to be confusing the Portsmouth service with a London suburban commuter route. Well it is a commuter route to some extent, but it isn't the sort of route Grayling was actually on about. No doubt RMT are well aware that the Aventra fleet for use on suburban routes, and the whole Windsor side service including Reading, will be standard class only, as that has been published by SWR.

But if the RMT view is that first class is wrong on journeys the length (and for the time taken) of the Portsmouth Direct, then there are far more possible targets out there...

The problem is when someone in the press (who has a dislike for the RMT) writes an article about how the RMT are campaigning for pregnant women to lose their ability to use first class when there's no standard seats in trains which often have people traveling on them for over an hour.

From my experience of walking through first class sections of the 450's the number of empty seats is that when there's limited space in standard class then there isn't that many spare seats anyway and so wouldn't make a lot of difference anyway. There are exceptions to this, such as heading to major towns (Basingstoke, Guildford, etc.) When traveling against the peak direction of travel. However, most of those travellers tend to be shorter distance so it tends to be for short periods of time.

class387 · 18 Nov 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
Whoever said about the proposed 450 first class seats looking like Ryanair they couldn’t be more right!

That was me. And now we know that the 444s will be 2+2 in First...

Kite159 · 23 Nov 2017

Once more details of what services are being planned to go via Staines (and what services are being cut short, as I assume WoE services will be 2-hourly to/from Waterloo with the other service terminating at Basingstoke) are slow to appear.

Unless SWR have decided for some reason to only run a 2-hourly West of England service on Sunday, in which case those trains will be cosy

TEW · 23 Nov 2017

Lots of services missing from the timetable for Sunday. Guildford-Epsom, Woking-Alton, Woking-Basingstoke. A lot were only added today and a lot are still missing. Alton apparently has no trains on Sunday for example.

TT-ONR-NRN · 23 Nov 2017

WHAT???? I live in Farnham - are the Alton line services going on weekends????

Kite159 · 23 Nov 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
WHAT???? I live in Farnham - are the Alton line services going on weekends????

The website is saying:

Hourly stopping services will run between Woking and Basingstoke, also between Woking and Alton.

So get ready to change at Woking if you want to carry on towards Waterloo on the gentle meander via Staines. Although the timings are not yet being shown

TT-ONR-NRN · 23 Nov 2017

Kite159 said:
The website is saying:

So get ready to change at Woking if you want to carry on towards Waterloo on the gentle meander via Staines

So it will be an hourly shuttle then from Woking?

Kite159 · 23 Nov 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
So it will be an hourly shuttle then from Woking?

Sounds that will be the case, although the timings are not being shown yet

SpacePhoenix · 23 Nov 2017

Looking at the timetables as they currently stand it appears that to reach Woking for Woking-Alton trains from Dorset I'd need to go via Portsmouth to reach Woking (unless I'm reading the timetables wrong)!!!!!

Mordac · 28 Nov 2017

Kite159 said:
Judging by Twitter, it seems the RMT are not happy with the 444s & 450s keeping First Class areas

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-exposes-grayling-first-class-fiasco/

And there was me thinking the only new rolling stock will be standard class only suburban stock, unless the RMT are confusing the 442s as being new trains. I've seen services departing Waterloo in the high peaks and First Class seems to be well used, especially on those 444s which are fast to Winchester. And unlike some TOCs where 1st class is pretty much the same as Standard Class, at least First Class on the 444s/450s is different enough to warrant those high earners in the city to pay extra to get a table seat to be able to work.

If I were an RMT member I'd be embarrassed that that sort of drivel was being put out in my name.

Even leaving out the whole absurd tone of the release (which reads like it was written by a student trot), why does the RMT care about what is purely an commercial decision matter. Does it actually affect working conditions for their members whether there is first class or not?

swt_passenger · 28 Nov 2017

TT-ONR-NRN said:
WHAT???? I live in Farnham - are the Alton line services going on weekends????

I think this discussion (from post 3708 on) appears to originally be about this weekend's engineering works. Nothing permanent to worry about...

physics34 · 28 Nov 2017

Kite159 said:
Judging by Twitter, it seems the RMT are not happy with the 444s & 450s keeping First Class areas

https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-exposes-grayling-first-class-fiasco/

And there was me thinking the only new rolling stock will be standard class only suburban stock, unless the RMT are confusing the 442s as being new trains. I've seen services departing Waterloo in the high peaks and First Class seems to be well used, especially on those 444s which are fast to Winchester. And unlike some TOCs where 1st class is pretty much the same as Standard Class, at least First Class on the 444s/450s is different enough to warrant those high earners in the city to pay extra to get a table seat to be able to work.

quite embarrasing from the RMT and nothing more than a cheap pop at Grayling (although he does deserve all the grief that he gets).

Some people actually want first class....

TT-ONR-NRN · 28 Nov 2017

swt_passenger said:
I think this discussion (from post 3708 on) appears to originally be about this weekend's engineering works. Nothing permanent to worry about...

I see. Cheers.

TEW · 1 Dec 2017

https://www.southwesternrailway.com/contact-and-help/refunds-and-compensation/delay-repay

Delay Repay for 15 minute delays is now live.

From the January fare change Advance Purchase tickets will be available from a further 33 stations to the London area.
The new stations are those Salisbury-Overton, Micheldever-Beaulieu Road, Portsmouth Harbour-Rowlands Castle/Eastleigh/Southampton Central and also the Salisbury 6 Local Stations (Chandler's Ford, Romsey, Mottisfont & Dunbridge and Dean).

swt_passenger · 1 Dec 2017

Is that a bit like saying everywhere southwest of a line drawn from Overton to Micheldever to Rowlands Castle?

New South Western franchise: Awarded to First/MTR

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