People boarding before everyone has alighted

SquireBev · 25 Nov 2017

Is there anything that can be done about the crowds of people on platforms pushing onto trains before everyone has alighted?

I've tried a polite but firm raised voice, but it just gets me a torrent of abuse in return, while the few platform staff that do exist just look on from a distance.

Last night at Birmingham New Street I was among the last few people to alight from a terminating service and had to fight my way through the press of bodies crowding around the door and onto the train. Do people have no common sense or courtesy at all?

RailUK Forums

XCTurbostar · 25 Nov 2017

This is one thing that annoys me as well. If I'm at the front of the 'getting on queue', I purposely wait until the very last person has got off, even if they're still in the centre of their coach sorting their bags etc out. Even then you can tell the people behind are getting a bit itchy because they're worried they're not going to get the seat they wanted. The station staff are not asked to get involved because it often causes more issues than it fixes.

SquireBev · 25 Nov 2017

XCTurbostar said:
If I'm at the front of the 'getting on queue', I purposely wait until the very last person has got off, even if they're still in the centre of their coach sorting their bags etc out. Even then you can tell the people behind are getting a bit itchy because they're worried they're not going to get the seat they wanted.

Surprised they don't just push past you and get on anyway.

Urban Gateline · 25 Nov 2017

Yes I agree with the OP, it is a sad state of affairs that a lot of commuters have lost their manners and it becomes a survival of the fittest race to get on the Train and get their desired seat. I am platform staff at a busy London terminus and I also just stand back and let them get on with it, there is nothing much we can do especially on a long 12 car train which has 24 sets of doors a bit of shouting will not make the blindest bit of difference especially as many people have headphones in!

The most effective way of nipping this in the bud is those getting off need to be more foreceful and just push their way off the Train instead of letting people squeeze on past them.

daikilo · 25 Nov 2017

I also think the degree of "pushing" is inversely proportional to the number of seats perceived as available. Those who know they will get on but will be standing anyway tend to stand back and watch other doors.

I also consider that it is really only a big issue with end door stock and not 1/3-2/3 dual lane stock.

As to what can be done, I weigh about 240lb and when I want to get off, people generally stand aside, especially when I have a suit-case or two, and I say please and thank-you.

If I am last to get-off and a bit behind the previous person, I don't mind if some get on provided they stay in the door area, otherwise I tend to assert myself, but again remain polite.

yorksrob · 25 Nov 2017

I think it's wrong to try and barge on whilst the flow of people are still coming off the train. But if there's likely to be competition for seats and someone's straggling behind the others to get off, I think it's understandable that people will start to get on.

SquireBev · 25 Nov 2017

yorksrob said:
I think it's understandable that people will start to get on.

Even if it prevents the last few people comfortably getting off? There were people trying to get prams and bikes on against the flow of alighting passengers last night, and I ended up sprawled across the platform due to tripping over them when stepping down.

Not one person offered to help me up, either.

tspaul26 · 25 Nov 2017

I find that judicious use of an umbrella tends to do the trick.

SquireBev · 25 Nov 2017

Additionally, last week, again at New Street on the same service, a girl in a wheelchair was waiting for a member of staff to bring the ramp so she could get off, and people started pushing on and completely surrounded her.

I just can't fathom that level of self-inportance and ignorance.

MichaelAMW · 25 Nov 2017

Since the byelaws say:

"10. Trains
(1) No person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that
door has passed through."

it is actually a criminal matter not to wait. I have been told that the safety aspects of this byelaw are important: since it's the "PTI" where most accidents occur these days, anything that reduces pushing and shoving where there is a gap and a step has to be a good thing

XCTurbostar · 25 Nov 2017

The more you know. Ill remember that.

Delticthrash · 25 Nov 2017

I didn't know that there was a law about it. But you'd have to be a lawyer to know it, and even then most people wouldn't care and it would be impractical to enforce. Having a polite and firm word with people isn't the way to go about it as you can see from the responses you're getting. The fact you've posted about it shows you're overcomplicating the issue, and I don't know if you're afraid of offending them. If someone has barged into you, barge back past them. Actions speak louder than words, and it's really the only thing you can do. Trust me, I've done this on the tube quite a lot, and everyone barges into one another on there.

otomous · 25 Nov 2017

SquireBev said:
Is there anything that can be done about the crowds of people on platforms pushing onto trains before everyone has alighted?

I've tried a polite but firm raised voice, but it just gets me a torrent of abuse in return, while the few platform staff that do exist just look on from a distance.

Last night at Birmingham New Street I was among the last few people to alight from a terminating service and had to fight my way through the press of bodies crowding around the door and onto the train. Do people have no common sense or courtesy at all?

Not much platform staff can do. They have the choice of abused by aggressive idiots or being reported for rudeness by self important idiots. Best to do nothing beyond what you have to do - assist, dispatch, keep an eye out. No one takes any notice if they make general announcements at the time.

I doubt if commuters have ever been polite anyway!

FordFocus · 25 Nov 2017

I normally stand in the doorway and shout "Don't be rude and give people a chance to get off".

Bromley boy · 25 Nov 2017

Shouting “excuse me” and barging out of the door works for me. I’ve barged people all the way back through the door of tube trains in the past when they’ve tried to push on (it helps that I’m 6”3 and broad shouldered, that approach wouldn’t work for everyone, I realise).

Generally it does seem to be happening more and more - I put it down to people increasingly being in their own worlds, headphones on, glued to iphone etc.

Bunsenburner · 25 Nov 2017

I find it difficult on 15 xx stock when changing ends at some stations. They refuse to allow you to get off before they alight, then wonder why there is a delay in leaving when you finally set your cab up.

azz7008 · 25 Nov 2017

There is definitely a section of people that take too long (disabilities aside), this coupled with the guard blowing the whistle on a late running inbound service (Take note inbound Standard Airport service at New Street) is always going to result in carnage.

yorksrob · 25 Nov 2017

SquireBev said:
Even if it prevents the last few people comfortably getting off? There were people trying to get prams and bikes on against the flow of alighting passengers last night, and I ended up sprawled across the platform due to tripping over them when stepping down.

Not one person offered to help me up, either.

Like I say, if it's after the bulk of people have got off I will. But I will dive into a seat to let the stragglers past.

Of course, this situation got a lot worse when they stopped giving every seating bay it's own slam door.

Bletchleyite · 25 Nov 2017

Being tall and broad I just stand in the middle of the door completely blocking it glaring at them until they move. If they don’t it tends to result in something like “Are you going to move out of the way? You’re not going to get on until we have got off”.

Mind you I have had (on TPE) people actually pushing under my arm before it had even got that far - and I’m talking grown adults here.

GW43125 · 25 Nov 2017

Dubai have stickers on the platform which tell people where to stand to separate the flows of people. If I try to use the same approach here, I just get pushed. Getting off my daily train home sees people surrounding the door waiting to get on and I have to push past crowds of people to get off.

coxxy · 25 Nov 2017

There is.. if the TOCS increased capacity and frequency of services then people wouldn't be fitting to get on. But I think we all know that will never happen..

tspaul26 · 25 Nov 2017

coxxy said:
There is.. if the TOCS increased capacity and frequency of services then people wouldn't be fitting to get on. But I think we all know that will never happen..

Nonsense.

The same thing happens at Altrincham every weekday morning even though it's the terminus for Metrolink and all passengers will be alighting. Doesn't stop people obstructing the doors by crowding around them on the platform and trying to push on!

It is stupidity and discourtesy: nothing more.

Bookd · 25 Nov 2017

I agree that this is annoying, but people are also concerned that they can board. I have often known down trains at Richmond, where lots of people disembark, when the hustle alarm an guard's whistle are sounded before everyone has got off, let alone allowing time for passengers to board.

sefton · 25 Nov 2017

Railway staff partly cause the problem by being too quick to dispatch the train.

At Stevenage yesterday I waited to get on whilst everyone got off.

The member of platform staff blew their whistle to give the indication to go whilst people were still getting off and people where waiting to get on. Nobody was dawdling and the train wasn't late.

SquireBev · 25 Nov 2017

sefton said:
Railway staff partly cause the problem by being too quick to dispatch the train.

At Stevenage yesterday I waited to get on whilst everyone got off.

The member of platform staff blew their whistle to give the indication to go whilst people were still getting off and people where waiting to get on. Nobody was dawdling and the train wasn't late.

Is this a result of DOO? On the London Midland trains I've been using it's still up to the guard.

Parallel · 25 Nov 2017

I experienced this last week, arrived on a morning completely wedged train into Bath (2-car 150 vice 3-car 158) and this woman on the platform barged on before people had finished getting off. I told her that people were still getting off and she just rolled her eyes at me and then carried on trying to barge her way on. Unbelievable.

ComUtoR · 25 Nov 2017

sefton said:
The member of platform staff blew their whistle to give the indication to go whilst people were still getting off and people where waiting to get on. Nobody was dawdling and the train wasn't late.

The whistle is there to hustle people on. Difficult to speak for Stevenage as it isn't somewhere I sign but none of our whistles are part of the dispatch process other than to hustle the passengers.

sefton · 25 Nov 2017

ComUtoR said:
The whistle is there to hustle people on. Difficult to speak for Stevenage as it isn't somewhere I sign but none of our whistles are part of the dispatch process other than to hustle the passengers.

Exactly my point, the member of platform staff was trying to hustle people to board when people were still getting off.

If it is a crime to board when people are getting off, is the member of platform staff guilty of attempting to incite a crime...

Bromley boy · 25 Nov 2017

sefton said:
Exactly my point, the member of platform staff was trying to hustle people to board when people were still getting off.

If it is a crime to board when people are getting off, is the member of platform staff guilty of attempting to incite a crime...

That is a very silly comment indeed.

The idea of blowing whistles is to encourage people to get a move on so that services can run to time.

I’m sure you’re the first to complain when your train is late. Lateness is often due to passengers dawdling, large groups all attempting to board through one door etc.

Bantamzen · 25 Nov 2017

I find that a gentle shoulder barge is usually enough to deter people trying to barge onto a train whilst people are still alighting. Similarly a gentle ankle tap works effectively if people barge past when trying to board.

People boarding before everyone has alighted

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Veteran Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Member

Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member