Proposed timetable for Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service

jamesst · 28 Sep 2018

So I wonder what the chances are of this service even starting next May? I can't see where the stock is coming from even then

RailUK Forums

krus_aragon · 28 Sep 2018

jamesst said:
So I wonder what the chances are of this service even starting next May? I can't see where the stock is coming from even then

There are 5 cascaded 153s due from GWR in May, and the 230s are due to start arriving for comissioning in "early 2019", with all five expected in service "in summer 2019".

The Prisoner · 29 Sep 2018

Gareth Marston said:
Current Fares Chester to Liverpool are

via Birkenhead SDS £7.30
via Birkenhead SDR £7.60
Via Warrington SDS £11.00
Via Warrington CDR 11.10
Via Warrington SDR £12.20
Any Permitted SDR £12.20

I can see the via Warrington's being dropped and replaced with via Runcorn as theirs probably no income stream on the via Warringtons, Keolis do have a relatively blank page to start with.

Merseyrail sell a Day Saver ticket which is valid from Chester (think off peak only) for £5.50. Takes you anywhere on the Wirral or Northern Lines. The ticket machines at Chester have a notice on them telling people not to buy those Liverpool tickets as they are more expensive than the Day Saver.

Gareth Marston · 29 Sep 2018

The Prisoner said:
Merseyrail sell a Day Saver ticket which is valid from Chester (think off peak only) for £5.50. Takes you anywhere on the Wirral or Northern Lines. The ticket machines at Chester have a notice on them telling people not to buy those Liverpool tickets as they are more expensive than the Day Saver.

Whether they decide to compete with Merseyrail for the Chester to Liverpool traffic I don't know. Until they get the services beyond Chester running people might still change to Merseyrail. Cheaper via Runcorn fares from beyond Chester?

One thing that needs looking at it the pricing cliff between Gobowen and Shrewsbury. From GOB there's an SDR for 14.70 & a SVR for 18.70 from Shrewsbury there's just a SVR for 38.90 - hardly conducive to encouraging people to use an hourly service to Liverpool. SHR has a SDR to Manchester for 30.30 and a SVR for 34.60.

notlob.divad · 29 Sep 2018

The Prisoner said:
Merseyrail sell a Day Saver ticket which is valid from Chester (think off peak only) for £5.50. Takes you anywhere on the Wirral or Northern Lines.

which is daft in itself as an all areas adult Saveaway is only £5.30 which adds in the City lines to the boundary stations and all the Merseyside Buses as well. Not sure you can buy one at Chester Station though.

LNW-GW Joint · 29 Sep 2018

Merseytravel is the sponsor of the Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool service on behalf of the Liverpool City Region deal, as well as "owning" Merseyrail.
It is also funding the service startup.
You'd hope a creative fares system covering all the Chester-Liverpool services would be the result (also a new operator for W&B).

Loop & Link · 29 Sep 2018

The All Zone Day Saver (i.e: Chester to Liverpool) is £5.20.

krus_aragon · 29 Sep 2018

Gareth Marston said:
One thing that needs looking at it the pricing cliff between Gobowen and Shrewsbury. From GOB there's an SDR for 14.70 & a SVR for 18.70 from Shrewsbury there's just a SVR for 38.90 - hardly conducive to encouraging people to use an hourly service to Liverpool. SHR has a SDR to Manchester for 30.30 and a SVR for 34.60.

Would I be right in thinking that Gobowen's prices still reflect the fact that Gobowen only had a two-hourly service at privatisation?

There are some equally barmy ticketing issues from the coast. From Chester you have half a dozen standard class tickets to Manchester available (SVR, SDR, CDR, etc), but all stations west of Chester only have a SVR to Manchester. As for tickets to Liverpool, all of Prestatyn, Rhyl, Bangor and Holyhead have nothing but a SVR, but Colwyn and Llandudno have a CDR too (at a pound or so cheaper), whereas Flint's SDR actually undercuts most of Chester's fares!

frodshamfella · 30 Sep 2018

LNW-GW Joint said:
Merseytravel is the sponsor of the Chester-Runcorn-Liverpool service on behalf of the Liverpool City Region deal, as well as "owning" Merseyrail.
It is also funding the service startup.
You'd hope a creative fares system covering all the Chester-Liverpool services would be the result (also a new operator for W&B).

Would make sense.

Llandudno · 30 Sep 2018

Hopefully, when (if!) the new service opens, Merseytravel Saveaway Tickets may be valid via Frodsham as Liverpool City Region have part funded the scheme?

Saveaways are already valid on trains only outside the former Merseyside CC boundary to Ormskirk, Chester via Hooton and Hough Green (marginally in Cheshire/Halton)

frodshamfella · 30 Sep 2018

notlob.divad said:
I would respectfully disagree. Everyone knows Wales and Borders has had a looming rolling stock problem caused by the looming PRM deadline and general overcrowding. Grayling defered all desicions on this claiming it was responsibility of the Welsh Assembly and the future franchisee, whilst simultaneously hindering the process of devolving the franchising process to the Welsh Assembly.

It was also Graylings decision that when the scope of the Elecctrification delays and budget overruns became apparent decided to entirely scrap the unstarted electfification rather than push forward with an aim to completing it. I am not saying this was the wrong decision given the circumstances, but given the failure to come up with any alternative plan, this is very much a knock on consequence of that decision. Just palming it off as nothing to do with Grayling, simply lets him off the hook for yet another of his ministerial failings.

I despair really, open a railway line , and no trains to run on it, you couldn't make it up . Back to the parliamentary I presume !

Gareth Marston · 30 Sep 2018

krus_aragon said:
Would I be right in thinking that Gobowen's prices still reflect the fact that Gobowen only had a two-hourly service at privatisation?

There are some equally barmy ticketing issues from the coast. From Chester you have half a dozen standard class tickets to Manchester available (SVR, SDR, CDR, etc), but all stations west of Chester only have a SVR to Manchester. As for tickets to Liverpool, all of Prestatyn, Rhyl, Bangor and Holyhead have nothing but a SVR, but Colwyn and Llandudno have a CDR too (at a pound or so cheaper), whereas Flint's SDR actually undercuts most of Chester's fares!

There was no reduction in fares when they cut the hourly Wolverhampton to Chester service to 2 hourly north of Shrewsbury the difference is more to do with them jacking up the fares on the Marches following the replacement of LHCs and extending services north of Crewe once more in the late 80's. Until 2003 there were through trains to Liverpool from Shrewsbury via Crewe.

krus_aragon · 1 Oct 2018

Gareth Marston said:
There was no reduction in fares when they cut the hourly Wolverhampton to Chester service to 2 hourly north of Shrewsbury the difference is more to do with them jacking up the fares on the Marches following the replacement of LHCs and extending services north of Crewe once more in the late 80's. Until 2003 there were through trains to Liverpool from Shrewsbury via Crewe.

Thanks.

geoffk · 17 Oct 2018

I'm sure I found the new Liverpool - Chester service on RTT for December, but when I looked today it's not there. Anyone know why it might have been removed?

swt_passenger · 17 Oct 2018

geoffk said:
I'm sure I found the new Liverpool - Chester service on RTT for December, but when I looked today it's not there. Anyone know why it might have been removed?

See post #60 onwards in this thread. No rolling stock available.

Bevan Price · 17 Oct 2018

Gareth Marston said:
Whether they decide to compete with Merseyrail for the Chester to Liverpool traffic I don't know. Until they get the services beyond Chester running people might still change to Merseyrail. Cheaper via Runcorn fares from beyond Chester?

One thing that needs looking at it the pricing cliff between Gobowen and Shrewsbury. From GOB there's an SDR for 14.70 & a SVR for 18.70 from Shrewsbury there's just a SVR for 38.90 - hardly conducive to encouraging people to use an hourly service to Liverpool. SHR has a SDR to Manchester for 30.30 and a SVR for 34.60.

Cheaper to rebook at Chester if making a day trip from Shrewsbury to Liverpool & back.
Shrewsbury / Chester £ 13.60 (anytime day return ) or £ 11.50 (off peak day return)

Gareth Marston · 17 Oct 2018

Bevan Price said:
Cheaper to rebook at Chester if making a day trip from Shrewsbury to Liverpool & back.
Shrewsbury / Chester £ 13.60 (anytime day return ) or £ 11.50 (off peak day return)

Indeed.

Welshman · 17 Oct 2018

frodshamfella said:
I despair really, open a railway line , and no trains to run on it, you couldn't make it up . Back to the parliamentary I presume !

Unfortunately you could - I remember exactly the same thing happening when the Todmorden curve was re-opened a little while back!

edwin_m · 17 Oct 2018

Exactly the same root cause as most of the other problems in the North West. Late completion of electrification meaning diesel trains expected to be made available are still needed elsewhere. With some contribution from the 2020 accessibility mods deadline and late delivery of 769s.

frodshamfella · 20 Oct 2018

Welshman said:
Unfortunately you could - I remember exactly the same thing happening when the Todmorden curve was re-opened a little while back!

Well they have time to build Beechwood Station on the curve now !!

Proposed timetable for Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn service

Member

RailUK Forums

Established Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member

Established Member

Established Member

Veteran Member

Established Member