SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

TEW · 28 Sep 2018

infobleep said:
What disruption would strikes cause if they happened this Saturday when there is engineering works affecting Waterloo?

Would the disruption be worse because different timetables would have to be drawn up that were quite different from the usual strike ones or would it be less disruptive as less trains are running there anyway?

I suspect there would be significant disruption if strikes were held this weekend, as there are diversions via Chertsey on some mainline trains. There would be a very limited supply of guards available who sign that diversion. It is not a route contingency guards have been trained on AFAIK, since the route receives no service on strike days. It would just be guards managers and guards who come in on strike days.

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Goldfish62 · 28 Sep 2018

Robertj21a said:
True. Short-sighted but rather inevitable when you can't rely on public transport.

Yes, people have a low tolerance threshold for public transport and when they take up the private car they rarely return.

Carlisle · 28 Sep 2018

TEW said:
the number eligible to vote in the last ballot was broadly similar to the number eligible to vote in the previous one.

52 members down, since the previous ballot .

Dieseldriver · 28 Sep 2018

TEW said:
I suspect there would be significant disruption if strikes were held this weekend, as there are diversions via Chertsey on some mainline trains. There would be a very limited supply of guards available who sign that diversion. It is not a route contingency guards have been trained on AFAIK, since the route receives no service on strike days. It would just be guards managers and guards who come in on strike days.

I'm sure that the route would appear on a lot of the contingency Guards route cards if that were the case.

TEW · 28 Sep 2018

Dieseldriver said:
I'm sure that the route would appear on a lot of the contingency Guards route cards if that were the case.

No doubt it would. But if the RMT were to give the minimum two weeks notice it would make it very difficult for SWR.

infobleep · 28 Sep 2018

TEW said:
And they are. I don't know what effect it is having on higher management, somehow I doubt they are losing much sleeper, but it is having a huge impact on the lower management. They certainly do seem drained.

Do middle manage have any say in this dispute or are they just collateral damage.

TEW said:
I suspect there would be significant disruption if strikes were held this weekend, as there are diversions via Chertsey on some mainline trains. There would be a very limited supply of guards available who sign that diversion. It is not a route contingency guards have been trained on AFAIK, since the route receives no service on strike days. It would just be guards managers and guards who come in on strike days.

If that was me wishing to highlight my cause and inflict disruption, I'd have striked this Friday and Saturday.

TEW · 28 Sep 2018

infobleep said:
Do middle manage have any say in this dispute or are they just collateral damage.

SWR have been quite happy to send middle management to the talks with the RMT. I am not sure whether that shows how much power and influence the middle management have, or how SWR aren't taking the talks especially seriously.

Dieseldriver · 28 Sep 2018

TEW said:
No doubt it would. But if the RMT were to give the minimum two weeks notice it would make it very difficult for SWR.

Given the condensed training that contingency Guards have been given I think they would have happily sent them out for one day to learn and sign it to be honest.

RailExplorer · 28 Sep 2018

The general feeling within the SWR management grades isn't great (admittedly far more noticeable in certain management grades) - this is one of the many reasons why I chose to leave SWR and take my many years of experience with me. They do look after their contingency guards but working 6 day weeks is not ideal.

Carlisle · 28 Sep 2018

RailExplorer said:
The atmosphere within the SWR management grades is becoming unbearable (admittedly far more noticeable in certain management grades) .

Was it ever really that much different at most of the TOCs though ?
In my experience a fair number have demonstrated some extremely dire and shambolic management practices in their time, they’d just become rather effective at shielding the staff with the actual ability to stop the job far enough away from them in order to create an illusion they were great employers.

HH · 28 Sep 2018

Carlisle said:
Was it ever really that much different at most of the TOCs though ?
In my experience a fair number have demonstrated some extremely dire and shambolic management practices in their time, they’d just become rather effective at shielding the staff with the actual ability to stop the job far enough away from them in order to create an illusion they were great employers.

My experience is that the more they talk about how they care for the staff and managers, the less they actually do...

theironroad · 28 Sep 2018

RailExplorer said:
The atmosphere within the SWR management grades is becoming unbearable (admittedly far more noticeable in certain management grades) - this is one of the many reasons why I chose to leave SWR and take my many years of experience with me. If it wasn’t for the almost bribery tactics for getting contingency guards into work, I’m not convinced there would be much of a service.

Hi, can I ask what management grade you were at swr if you feel comfortable saying so ?

Wychwood93 · 28 Sep 2018

HH said:
My experience is that the more they talk about how they care for the staff and managers, the less they actually do...

In much the same way that the unions will say much the same thing. Generally the senior members of both sides have jobs with generous salaries, a cynic would say that perhaps they are more than happy and just let other stuff drift on, and on...…...

Edders23 · 29 Sep 2018

Goldfish62 said:
Yes, must be good news for car dealers, bad news for traffic congestion.

in the last 12 months the M25 and other major roads have been noticeably busier although I suspect this might change once the government hits diesel fuel with extra duty

Don't forget most rail users probably already have the car option available without going out to buy one

Matt Taylor · 29 Sep 2018

XDM said:
He says, & I confirm he told me, that some drivers at some(note some) signing on points were sent home after an hour or so when it was clear there was no work they could cover & finish by their finishing time.
That is what happens every normal day at every TOC with sparemen.

I'm sorry to labour the point must I must take issue with this, you will probably disagree but nevertheless in the interests of balance I have to point out that the idea of people being sent home after an hour or so of being spare as a matter of course is unbelievable. Just how long does it take for a 'good service' to become 'major delays'? All it takes is one points failure, one track circuit failure, one trespasser, one failed train or heaven forbid one fatality. There would be serious questions being asked of the resource managers if this was the case. Standard practice is generally that you don't go home until you have a maximum of two hours remaining on your shift, and that's provided that there is no disruption and that there is at least one other spare person remaining.

Bournemouth to Poole and back, Fratton to Portsmouth and back, Woking to Guildford and back, these are all trips that can be done in 30-40 minutes or less which is why nobody is going home six or seven hours early.

nuts & bolts · 30 Sep 2018

Matt Taylor said:
I'm sorry to labour the point must I must take issue with this, you will probably disagree but nevertheless in the interests of balance I have to point out that the idea of people being sent home after an hour or so of being spare as a matter of course is unbelievable. Just how long does it take for a 'good service' to become 'major delays'? All it takes is one points failure, one track circuit failure, one trespasser, one failed train or heaven forbid one fatality. There would be serious questions being asked of the resource managers if this was the case. Standard practice is generally that you don't go home until you have a maximum of two hours remaining on your shift, and that's provided that there is no disruption and that there is at least one other spare person remaining.

Bournemouth to Poole and back, Fratton to Portsmouth and back, Woking to Guildford and back, these are all trips that can be done in 30-40 minutes or less which is why nobody is going home six or seven hours early.

Ditto

winks · 30 Sep 2018

Must be 10 days now of strikes in total, how much can guards carry on losing and how much (just out of interes) do RMT pay members who go on strike from funds ?

Tom Quinne · 30 Sep 2018

I got £36 for 4 days Strike action, so not a lot.

Tom Quinne · 30 Sep 2018

Matt Taylor said:
I'm sorry to labour the point must I must take issue with this, you will probably disagree but nevertheless in the interests of balance I have to point out that the idea of people being sent home after an hour or so of being spare as a matter of course is unbelievable. Just how long does it take for a 'good service' to become 'major delays'? All it takes is one points failure, one track circuit failure, one trespasser, one failed train or heaven forbid one fatality. There would be serious questions being asked of the resource managers if this was the case. Standard practice is generally that you don't go home until you have a maximum of two hours remaining on your shift, and that's provided that there is no disruption and that there is at least one other spare person remaining.

Bournemouth to Poole and back, Fratton to Portsmouth and back, Woking to Guildford and back, these are all trips that can be done in 30-40 minutes or less which is why nobody is going home six or seven hours early.

There is no way Resources allow anyone to book off duty after anything less than 6/7hrs on a 8hr spare day.

Helvellyn · 30 Sep 2018

winks said:
Must be 10 days now of strikes in total, how much can guards carry on losing and how much (just out of interes) do RMT pay members who go on strike from funds ?

Or put it another way. How bad have Industrial Relations got for that number of strike days (and it is a lot higher than ten) and the vote to hold up when there has been zero talk of redundancies?

Helvellyn · 30 Sep 2018

Tom Quinne said:
There is no way Resources allow anyone to book off duty after anything less than 6/7hrs on a 8hr spare day.

And it is a brave Driver or Guard who would ask a DRM much before that as well! :lol:

TEW · 30 Sep 2018

Helvellyn said:
Or put it another way. How bad have Industrial Relations got for that number of strike days (and it is a lot higher than ten) and the vote to hold up when there has been zero talk of redundancies?

The RMT have been clever with the choice of dates too, choosing dates people are actually quite happy not to work on, even though there is a financial loss. Summer Saturdays are always popular to have off, and you won't find many guards complaining that they don't have to work on a day when there is an event on Ascot.

Goldfish62 · 1 Oct 2018

TEW said:
The RMT have been clever with the choice of dates too, choosing dates people are actually quite happy not to work on, even though there is a financial loss. Summer Saturdays are always popular to have off, and you won't find many guards complaining that they don't have to work on a day when there is an event on Ascot.

I would have thought only Royal Ascot is significant in the latter case. Other race days don't require any service enhancements.

However, we are now entering Rugby at Twickers season, which is in a whole different league.

TEW · 1 Oct 2018

It's not so much the service enhancement angle I was going at, more that guards generally don't like working on any Ascot event because of the crowd it seems to attract. So by choosing to strike when there is an event on, like this weekend, the RMT have chosen a date when people who are on the fence are more likely to choose to strike.

With regards to the rugby at Twickenham, I would be very surprised if strike dates are not announced for all upcoming Saturdays when games are taking place.

Kite159 · 1 Oct 2018

TEW said:
It's not so much the service enhancement angle I was going at, more that guards generally don't like working on any Ascot event because of the crowd it seems to attract. So by choosing to strike when there is an event on, like this weekend, the RMT have chosen a date when people who are on the fence are more likely to choose to strike.

With regards to the rugby at Twickenham, I would be very surprised if strike dates are not announced for all upcoming Saturdays when games are taking place.

Which will be great PR for coach companies pitching adverts as "Avoid the Railway Strikes, use 'National Express' to reach Twickenham for the big game"

Carlisle · 1 Oct 2018

Kite159 said:
Which will be great PR for coach companies pitching adverts as "Avoid the Railway Strikes, use 'National Express' to reach Twickenham for the big game"

Not an entirely impossible scenario, as having driven past many times I’d say it’s reasonably easily accessible by main road.

OneOffDave · 1 Oct 2018

Carlisle said:
Not an entirely impossible scenario, as having driven past many times I’d say it’s reasonably easily accessible by main road.

Much less so when the closures go in for big events and with the added congestion of the large number of people who already drive to matches there

Robertj21a · 1 Oct 2018

Carlisle said:
Not an entirely impossible scenario, as having driven past many times I’d say it’s reasonably easily accessible by main road.

National Express already run coaches to the major events at Twickenham, with extras put on as needed.

Bill Badger · 4 Oct 2018

This is weird! according to the .pdf timetable on the SWR Website the rail replacement bus service between Farnborough and Alton on Saturday is hourly whereas the service running between Alton and Farnborough is half hourly!!

Bookd · 4 Oct 2018

There is a big rugby match at Twickenham on Saturday (club rather than international but it involves the major event road closures and such).
The TfL weekly travel update recommends avoiding Twickenham traffic and that people going to the match should use SWR to Twickenham station and walk. If there is a strike this could be more chaotic than usual although I presume the usual bus shuttle will run from Richmond for those going by District Line.

SWR: Guards/RMT Industrial Action. Next strike dates: 30/31 August, 1/2 September 2019

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