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Hull Trains cancellations due to chronic shortage of available rolling stock

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Gemz91

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HullRailMan said:
I've said before that using HT is a choice. All their markets are served by other companies. If you don't like them don't use them. Simple really.
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The problem is, for people who know a bit about trains will know to avoid using Hull Trains. The regular Hull to London passengers may have experienced poor customer service on more then one occasion may choose to avoid using Hull Trains. But the casual user who don't have any interest in trains, the casual passenger who maybe uses the train once or twice a year to go to London may not know Hull Trains history, and its these people who suffer ridiculous rail replacement coach trips, long delays and possible weekends away ruined by delayed trains.

If you have knowledge about trains its easy to say use a different company, but the reality is there's probably a large percentage of potential Hull Trains passengers who don't have any clue whats going on, don't know the difference between Hull Trains, LNER or British Rail, and it's unacceptable service to these potential passengers.
 
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HullRailMan

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1148 has hit a metal object on the track at Gilberdyke. Sounds like it is damaged and all lines blocked in/out of Hull. More bad luck
 
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IanXC

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Gemz91 said:
The problem is, for people who know a bit about trains will know to avoid using Hull Trains. The regular Hull to London passengers may have experienced poor customer service on more then one occasion may choose to avoid using Hull Trains. But the casual user who don't have any interest in trains, the casual passenger who maybe uses the train once or twice a year to go to London may not know Hull Trains history, and its these people who suffer ridiculous rail replacement coach trips, long delays and possible weekends away ruined by delayed trains.

If you have knowledge about trains its easy to say use a different company, but the reality is there's probably a large percentage of potential Hull Trains passengers who don't have any clue whats going on, don't know the difference between Hull Trains, LNER or British Rail, and it's unacceptable service to these potential passengers.
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I think you underestimate Hull Train's standing and reputation in Hull. The local media have been all over this story for months, and so the only conclusion one can draw is that people continue to book with them, almost for the risk of having a direct train, and that the downside is that they will try their luck getting on any train they like.

The narrative that Hull has been poorly served by BR, and subsequently all the ICEC franchise holders is a relatively widely held opinion, so HT's position as having provided a much more meaningful service for what is a significant sized city and hinterland is valuable in terms of sentiment.

HullRailMan said:
1148 has hit a metal object on the track at Gilberdyke. Sounds like it is damaged and all lines blocked in/out of Hull. More bad luck
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On the move, on its own, 120 late.
 
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robbeech

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No I think they had 3 planned. I think the 1033 was cancelled for realignment purposes but can’t be sure. It’s formed off the 0727.
So if my calculations are correct this is down to 2 not 1. Of course. If the one that has hit an obstruction is one of the 2 that seem to work ok then there might be further problems ahead trying to operate one that tends to sit down every time the wind blows.

One thing that we see from this is the attitude of the passengers. You’ll always get a few that don’t think before they type, but I can’t help thinking that the recent abysmal service has certainly provoked people to be less forgiving with HT when a genuinely unavoidable (for them) situation occurs.
 
Wilts Wanderer

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One only has to look at Ryanair loadings to see how customers will continue to use an appallingly poor product if only the ticket price is enticing enough. Price is something that OA operators can always compete favourably on, due to capped track access charges compared to franchised competition.
 
Dr Hoo

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Wilts Wanderer said:
One only has to look at Ryanair loadings to see how customers will continue to use an appallingly poor product if only the ticket price is enticing enough. Price is something that OA operators can always compete favourably on, due to capped track access charges compared to franchised competition.
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I thought that franchised TOCs and open access passenger operators effectively paid the same variable track access charges (adjusted as necessary for the actual vehicles in use, of course) and the franchised TOCs effectively had the ‘fixed’ access charge element effectively covered by the franchising authority.
I know changes are afoot from the ORR for the future but am talking about the present time. Have things already changed?
 
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westv

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Wilts Wanderer said:
One only has to look at Ryanair loadings to see how customers will continue to use an appallingly poor product if only the ticket price is enticing enough. Price is something that OA operators can always compete favourably on, due to capped track access charges compared to franchised competition.
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I'm sure it's already been discussed that HT's fares aren't any cheaper than LNER with a change at Doncaster and in some cases more expensive.
 
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HullRailMan

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westv said:
I'm sure it's already been discussed that HT's fares aren't any cheaper than LNER with a change at Doncaster and in some cases more expensive.
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Well flexible fares certainly are. Off peak return Hull-KX HT only is £154.50, any permitted is £180.50.
 
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alangla

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Is there a reason why they’re persisting with an end-to-end service rather than splitting it the way they did when they had the 86 on hire? One would have thought that hiring something like a pair of 158s (e.g. some of the ones ScotRail have just handed on), or indeed coaches, for the Doncaster to Hull leg with 180s on the ECML might be an option to provide a service, albeit with a change. Would probably be more reliable than trying & failing to run a full service.
This all reminds me a bit of what happened with First on ScotRail during the bad winter in 2010-11, rather than advertising and running reduced services, they tried to run as normal but invariably the weather got the better of them as the day went on. Sometimes it’s better to offer a solid 100% of half than an unpredictable 50% of everything.
 
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robbeech

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They’ll have their reasons for not being able to do that I’m sure. Personally I think they’d be better doing the Hull to Doncaster bit to avoid them sitting down on the ecml causing issues for services far wider than Doncaster to Hull / Brid etc. I appreciate it’s not ideal either way.
As we have been rightly reminded, they’re highly professional and know what they’re doing so their reasons must be justified. I certainly don’t claim to have a guaranteed solution although I think many of us may agree that a longer term 2 train plan might be more suitable but for reasons we can’t seem to find out they are reluctant to do this. And with the risk of it coming full circle again it is this particular attitude that customers have the biggest issue with.
 
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aar0

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The guard on the 1930 LNER service from King's Cross to Newcastle warned before departure that HT tickets weren't valid despite cancellations - not something I've heard before (having last travelled with LNER before the current HT issues)
 
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DaiGog

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aar0 said:
The guard on the 1930 LNER service from King's Cross to Newcastle warned before departure that HT tickets weren't valid despite cancellations - not something I've heard before (having last travelled with LNER before the current HT issues)
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This is normal practice, at least on most LNER services I have been on. Similarly, HT and GC announce that LNER Only / LNER & Connections are not valid on their services. I think the 1933 was the contingency train for the cancelled 1848 HT yesterday evening as well, so an announcement on the 1930 would have been particularly prudent.

3 units in traffic at start of service today.
 
43096

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alangla said:
Is there a reason why they’re persisting with an end-to-end service rather than splitting it the way they did when they had the 86 on hire? One would have thought that hiring something like a pair of 158s (e.g. some of the ones ScotRail have just handed on), or indeed coaches, for the Doncaster to Hull leg with 180s on the ECML might be an option to provide a service, albeit with a change. Would probably be more reliable than trying & failing to run a full service.
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There is a national shortage of DMUs, so their only option would be loco hauled stock from Riviera, WCRC or whoever.
 
brompton rail

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There is insufficient platform space at Doncaster to run HT Doncaster to Kings Cross and then use loco hauled Doncaster to Hull. A HT class 180 might fit platform 2 for terminating / starting services from/to London but where a loco hauled Hull to Doncaster might go I don’t know. Doncaster is very short of platforms, a problem not greatly improved by the new platform 0. Delays to services using platforms 4/8 are regularl, especially to XC services.
 
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robbeech

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DannyMich2018 said:
The Class 180's have had so many failures/problems this year that really a one way trip to the scrapyard is the only option!! Well of course not until the new trains enter service.
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I’d suggest getting something to drag them to minimise problems :)
 
_toommm_

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brompton rail said:
There is insufficient platform space at Doncaster to run HT Doncaster to Kings Cross and then use loco hauled Doncaster to Hull. A HT class 180 might fit platform 2 for terminating / starting services from/to London but where a loco hauled Hull to Doncaster might go I don’t know. Doncaster is very short of platforms, a problem not greatly improved by the new platform 0. Delays to services using platforms 4/8 are regularl, especially to XC services.
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Platform 6/7 for the 180 from Hull (a 180 can definitely fit into P6 in terms of passenger-useable doors) then the service from Kings Cross using P2 or running round into West Yard to stable.
 
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theblackwatch

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Statement by Hull Trains confirming they expect to have 4 sets in service over the festive season but have contingency plans involving coaches on standby. Also confirming the HST is on its way but will take a while...

 
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NoOnesFool

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alangla said:
Is there a reason why they’re persisting with an end-to-end service rather than splitting it the way they did when they had the 86 on hire? One would have thought that hiring something like a pair of 158s (e.g. some of the ones ScotRail have just handed on), or indeed coaches, for the Doncaster to Hull leg with 180s on the ECML might be an option to provide a service, albeit with a change. Would probably be more reliable than trying & failing to run a full service.
This all reminds me a bit of what happened with First on ScotRail during the bad winter in 2010-11, rather than advertising and running reduced services, they tried to run as normal but invariably the weather got the better of them as the day went on. Sometimes it’s better to offer a solid 100% of half than an unpredictable 50% of everything.
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To hire different stock, 158s as you mention, would require intensive training of all safety critical staff, which couldn't be done overnight sadly.

If they broke the journey along the way, i.e. only ran from KGX to DON and then an alternative from DON to Hull, the USP of Hull Trains would be lost and many Advance passengers may just book with LNER instead.
 
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NoOnesFool

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theblackwatch said:
Statement by Hull Trains confirming they expect to have 4 sets in service over the festive season but have contingency plans involving coaches on standby. Also confirming the HST is on its way but will take a while...

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Has anyone been on the 4 coach set? It'd be interesting to see how it copes capacity wise, considering the route used to be worked by 4 Coach Pioneers and 3 coach Turbostars before that.
 
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This article about HT securing use of a Great Western 125 is laughable in how both the newspaper and, worse, HT, seem to treat a 125 as a potentially dangerous innovation https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/new...ll-trains-secures-emergency-train-2346888.amp . I get the need to train on-train staff in the use of slam door stock but when Louise Cheeseman says:
'“With the slam-door stock, you can actually open the windows and stick your head out – we need to educate customers that this simply isn’t safe practice and we need to be certain that customers know exactly how to manage the new type of train we are going to be introducing.,”
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New type of train? Has she realised that passengers do travel on TOCs other than Hull Trains and have used -and are still using-125 slam door stock on the ECML (including to Hull) and elsewhere?!
 
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Phlip said:
Yesterday (19/12/18) there were no cancellations... Everything ran!
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I was shocked and appalled. I had gotten myself ready for the usual tedious practice of having to explain to their ticket holders connecting off my train that yes, they really would have to take a minibus and a Thameslink service to make their journey (I do at least like to give them prior warning and try and help where I can) only to find they're actually running the train! Bravo.
 
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Phlip

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TUC said:
New type of train? Has she realised that passengers do travel on TOCs other than Hull Trains and have used -and are still using-125 slam door stock on the ECML (including to Hull) and elsewhere?!
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I'm sure she does. I think that's more down to the imprecision of the word 'new' in English. She knows the train is not new and says so in her video. She means "new to us", "nouveau" in French, rather than brand new ("neuf").

That said, it is a little patronising to many passengers who are quite used to LNER's existing slam door HSTs (especially over recent months!!) and seem to be managing not to kill and injure themselves.
 
Esker-pades

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ScotRail felt the need to issue instructional videos when they introduced their unrefurbished HSTs. Perhaps Hull Trains could do the same without the assertion that people may get confused and die.
 
Polarbear

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TUC said:
This article about HT securing use of a Great Western 125 is laughable in how both the newspaper and, worse, HT, seem to treat a 125 as a potentially dangerous innovation https://www.hulldailymail.co.uk/new...ll-trains-secures-emergency-train-2346888.amp . I get the need to train on-train staff in the use of slam door stock but when Louise Cheeseman says:
'“With the slam-door stock, you can actually open the windows and stick your head out – we need to educate customers that this simply isn’t safe practice and we need to be certain that customers know exactly how to manage the new type of train we are going to be introducing.,”

New type of train? Has she realised that passengers do travel on TOCs other than Hull Trains and have used -and are still using-125 slam door stock on the ECML (including to Hull) and elsewhere?!
Click to expand...

The trouble is that the travelling public get very used to stuff like automatic doors etc., and as has tragically been demonstrated on a HST between Bath & Bristol a few weeks ago, people genuinely do not appreciate the dangers that opening windows present.
 
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