The 1964 reprieve of the North Highland Lines

I remember the decision not to allow closure of the lines north and west of Inverness. This was in April 1964, but later that year, Marples consented to closure of some smaller stations on those lines. Not all of these consents were actioned, but does anyone know where a list can be found, please? And were there any trial runs of dmus at that time?

The great cull of stations on the Far North was in 1960. The ones closed subsequently in 1965 were: Dunrobin (subsequently reopened), Salzcraggie, Borrobol and Hoy; on the Kyle line: Achterneed (1965) and Glencarron (1964). As to others for which the Minister granted consent to closure, but which were retained, I could not say. Ministerial consent was normally the last hurdle to definite closure.

My understanding was that first generation DMUs were never considered for the Highland main line north of Blair Atholl, where the climb begins, the Far North or Kyle. More than one journey undertaken in past times in a 101 up to Cobbinshaw summit (1:100) between Edinburgh and Carstairs at about 30mph would bear out the wisdom of that.

Thank you. Were Salzcraggie and Borrobol public halts/stations, or were they just for private use - as I believe Dunrobin used to be? I read somewhere about Kildonan and Forsinard being consented for closure at that time (1964), but of course they are still in the timetable. Perhaps the Minister had required bus services, to replace the trains, and nobody wanted to provide such.

Widening the issue, I remember in the early 70s, government consent was given for closure of several lines, including Kyle (a second closure proposal), but the 1973/4 oil crisis led to the closures not being implemented. Is there a time limit for carrying out a consented closure? Perhaps, the franchising system, with specified services, has overtaken the old system.

Millisle said:

More than one journey undertaken in past times in a 101 up to Cobbinshaw summit (1:100) between Edinburgh and Carstairs at about 30mph would bear out the wisdom of that.

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They were worse going up the 1 in 40 out of Glasgow Queen Street up to Cowlairs. Was once told that in their early days when there was a dedicated 0-4-4T banker they were actually assisted up.

But I remember that climb up to Cobbinshaw; around 1975 there was an afternoon connection from Edinburgh to a Glasgow-Manchester service at Carstairs, it used to load quite well, almost all seats taken, and it would very slowly drop down to that speed in 3rd gear at the summit. Once over the top full throttle was maintained and it was up to 70mph with some notable swaying setting in on the descent.

i remember the summer only 08.35 Queen St to Oban was a DMU. Used it once when the "white Ghost" appeared on it, was lovely run in the 1st carriage with the view ahead but quite a struggle at times

delt1c said:

i remember the summer only 08.35 Queen St to Oban was a DMU. Used it once when the "white Ghost" appeared on it, was lovely run in the 1st carriage with the view ahead but quite a struggle at times

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Yes, a nice run, sitting in the front of a Swindon Cross Country dmu on this train to Oban, back in 1966. Just like an observation car, but better because you were looking forwards. And coming back in the evening, loco hauled, there was an observation car. Happy days!

nanstallon said:

Thank you. Were Salzcraggie and Borrobol public halts/stations, or were they just for private use - as I believe Dunrobin used to be? I read somewhere about Kildonan and Forsinard being consented for closure at that time (1964), but of course they are still in the timetable. Perhaps the Minister had required bus services, to replace the trains, and nobody wanted to provide such.

Widening the issue, I remember in the early 70s, government consent was given for closure of several lines, including Kyle (a second closure proposal), but the 1973/4 oil crisis led to the closures not being implemented. Is there a time limit for carrying out a consented closure? Perhaps, the franchising system, with specified services, has overtaken the old system.

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At that time the Transport Act 1962 governed closures, if you want to check the details.
I think the origin of Salzcraggie and Borrobol was generally similar to Dunrobin in serving private estates, but they were all in the public timetable for most of their existence.
I would be surprised if Forsinard of all in that length had been identified for closure.

nanstallon said:

I remember in the early 70s, government consent was given for closure of several lines, including Kyle ... but the 1973/4 oil crisis led to the closures not being implemented.

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My recollection is that it was the result of the February 1974 General Election which led to the closure of the Kyle line not being implemented.

nanstallon said:

Is there a time limit for carrying out a consented closure?

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The consent to the closure of the Kyle line was revoked by the incoming minister in March 1974. The final words of the statement remain vivid in my memory: "and that railway passenger services shall continue to operate between Inverness and Kyle of Lochalsh".

Millisle said:

My understanding was that first generation DMUs were never considered for the Highland main line north of Blair Atholl, where the climb begins, the Far North or Kyle. More than one journey undertaken in past times in a 101 up to Cobbinshaw summit (1:100) between Edinburgh and Carstairs at about 30mph would bear out the wisdom of that.

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I'd wondered if the Swindon Class 123 units would have been suitable after being declared surplus by the WR? Whilst a niche fleet (ten four-car units, five of which had buffets) with three out of four coaches powered they might have been useful. Could even have run as three-car units (ditch the trailers) with say a six car to Kyle on busy trains and same to the Far North, but splitting for Thurso/Wick. With corridor connections throughout might have worked!

Helvellyn said:

I'd wondered if the Swindon Class 123 units would have been suitable after being declared surplus by the WR? Whilst a niche fleet (ten four-car units, five of which had buffets) with three out of four coaches powered they might have been useful. Could even have run as three-car units (ditch the trailers) with say a six car to Kyle on busy trains and same to the Far North, but splitting for Thurso/Wick. With corridor connections throughout might have worked!

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The Swindon InterCity 79xxx DMUs used on the Edinburgh and Glasgow service were considered for use on the Far North Line after withdrawal, a set operated a test run time Wick but nothing came of the proposal.

Also, I don't know how true it was, but I have heard that a reason for not closing the Far North was that it ran though many marginal constituencies.

hexagon789 said:

Also, I don't know how true it was, but I have heard that a reason for not closing the Far North was that it ran though many marginal constituencies.

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It may have been different back in 1974, but nowadays the Far North line only runs through 2 parliamentary constituencies ! I think you are think of the Central Wales / Heart of Wales line

martinsh said:

I think you are think of the Central Wales / Heart of Wales line

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Possibly, I think there were at least 3 constituencies in the Far North then.

hexagon789 said:

Possibly, I think there were at least 3 constituencies in the Far North then.

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Caithness & Sutherland, Ross & Cromarty and Inverness were the three constituencies at that time, I believe. There have been quite a few boundary changes since then.

Millisle said:

I would be surprised if Forsinard of all in that length had been identified for closure.

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Nowadays, Forsinard has just two raisons d'être: the Forsinard Flows RSPB reserve, a popular walking area complete with visitor centre (located at Forsinard station) and lookout tower, is one; the passing loop at the station is the other. What used to be the prevalent reason for the station to exist - a fairly swish hotel for people who want to shoot things - has now closed.

In the sixties, of course, none of these things would have been here; instead, the station served a few crumbs of houses as well as the road to Melvich (the present-day A897), which the railway swerved away from here (a branch was once proposed from Forsinard to Melvich and Portskerra via Dalhalvaig and Strath Halladale). It was somewhere below Kinbrace, Scotscalder and (somehow) Altnabreac in the pecking order (these stations were presumably deemed to serve more houses than Forsinard, and, to be fair, Altnabreac did have the hotel at Lochdhu Lodge back then), but above Kildonan - just. So it is conceivable that Forsinard station could have been earmarked for closure back in the 1960s.

Incidentally, the Friends of the Far North Line (FoFNL) are campaigning for the reinstatement of the passing loop at Kinbrace. This would certainly be a worthwhile project along with the Lentran Loop, boosting journeys hugely by reducing the amount of services which skip stops or run direct to Wick with Thurso passengers bussed on from Georgemas (Forsinard has the only passing loop north of Helmsdale); interestingly enough, it would also probably make Kinbrace a mandatory stop again. Kinbrace is probably the closest thing to a settlement between Helmsdale and Halkirk, so it's really a quirk of history - Forsinard keeping its loop as opposed to Kinbrace, perhaps due to geography only - that Kinbrace is a request stop today and Forsinard isn't.

The stations between Inverness and Thurso/Wick are meant to have been closed owing to geographical location rather than due to other peculiar barometers like 'usage'. This explains why stations such as Beauly, Muir of Ord, Conon Bridge (then called Conon), Evanton, Alness and Watten were shut while Kildonan and Altnabreac stayed open; Beauly, Conon and Evanton were judged to be too close to Inverness and Dingwall, while the same was presumably considered true of Alness and neighbouring Invergordon (of course, Alness is nowadays the biggest town in Easter Ross), and Watten and Georgemas. Kildonan, meanwhile, stayed open because there were no stations near it - and so, bizarrely did Altnabreac. Now we have stations that are open where nothing exists - and stations shut where there's more than just peaty fields.

But that's just a theory. A FILM theory...

Helvellyn said:

I'd wondered if the Swindon Class 123 units would have been suitable after being declared surplus by the WR? Whilst a niche fleet (ten four-car units, five of which had buffets) with three out of four coaches powered they might have been useful. Could even have run as three-car units (ditch the trailers) with say a six car to Kyle on busy trains and same to the Far North, but splitting for Thurso/Wick. With corridor connections throughout might have worked!

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Were the Class 123s not two motors and two trailers? Reforming them along the lines of the Trans-Pennine Class 124s would seem just the trick though, with the ability to split at Georgemas for Wick & Thurso.

RLBH said:

Were the Class 123s not two motors and two trailers? Reforming them along the lines of the Trans-Pennine Class 124s would seem just the trick though, with the ability to split at Georgemas for Wick & Thurso.

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A major issue back then would have been the amount of van traffic, which a dmu would have struggled with.

True enough - contemporary carriage working books show that there were almost as many vans as coaches, if not more, on most services north of Inverness.

Millisle said:

My understanding was that first generation DMUs were never considered for the Highland main line north of Blair Atholl, where the climb begins, the Far North or Kyle. More than one journey undertaken in past times in a 101 up to Cobbinshaw summit (1:100) between Edinburgh and Carstairs at about 30mph would bear out the wisdom of that.

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Though power-twin 101s (4 engines), even when utterly knackered and 40-odd years old, never had an issue with the steep gradients of the Conwy Valley.

backontrack said:

The stations between Inverness and Thurso/Wick are meant to have been closed owing to geographical location rather than due to other peculiar barometers like 'usage'. This explains why stations such as Beauly, Muir of Ord, Conon Bridge (then called Conon), Evanton, Alness and Watten were shut while Kildonan and Altnabreac stayed open; Beauly, Conon and Evanton were judged to be too close to Inverness and Dingwall, while the same was presumably considered true of Alness and neighbouring Invergordon (of course, Alness is nowadays the biggest town in Easter Ross), and Watten and Georgemas. Kildonan, meanwhile, stayed open because there were no stations near it - and so, bizarrely did Altnabreac. Now we have stations that are open where nothing exists - and stations shut where there's more than just peaty fields.

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Well, quite. The lack of a station at Halkirk, the only significant settlement anywhere near Thurso/Wick other than themselves, is nuts. There'd be little sense in killing off Georgemas due to the need to reverse, but that's by the by.

Bletchleyite said:

Well, quite. The lack of a station at Halkirk, the only significant settlement anywhere near Thurso/Wick other than themselves, is nuts. There'd be little sense in killing off Georgemas due to the need to reverse, but that's by the by.

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I agree (well, Castletown is also between Thurso and Wick, but away from the railway). It's bonkers.

backontrack said:

I agree (well, Castletown is also between Thurso and Wick, but away from the railway). It's bonkers.

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And it'd cost next to nothing. What do you need? A single platform accessed via a wheelchair ramp at the level crossing, a couple of nameboards, a bus shelter and a timetable frame. I know the railway likes to inflate costs, but it's about the cheapest station conceivable. You could even get away with making the platform about 10' long and using local door only as some staff halts do with the kind of usage we are talking about. It should really cost little more than a bus stop with a Kassel kerb.

Bletchleyite said:

And it'd cost next to nothing. What do you need? A single platform accessed via a wheelchair ramp at the level crossing, a couple of nameboards, a bus shelter and a timetable frame. I know the railway likes to inflate costs, but it's about the cheapest station conceivable. You could even get away with making the platform about 10' long and using local door only as some staff halts do with the kind of usage we are talking about. It should really cost little more than a bus stop with a Kassel kerb.

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I agree. This and Evanton.

But the real priority is the loop at Lentran.

Bletchleyite said:

Though power-twin 101s (4 engines), even when utterly knackered and 40-odd years old, never had an issue with the steep gradients of the Conwy Valley.

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Thank you for explaining power twin.