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May 2019 timetable changes

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PHILIPE

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DaveHarries said:
In what may be promising signs I went to Bristol Temple Meads earlier today (18th January) for the 1515 BRi-SVB and noticed a 4-car HST set sitting in Platform 4. Lead loco was 43016 with the rear loco being 43194. Carriages had electric doors on them with power points fitted throughout of the same type as those found on the 166s (ie. with USB sockets as well as plugs). Working code was 3Z25 so presumably a test run.

4-car Bristol to Taunton HSTs come May anyone?

Dave
Click to expand...

Crewe training trips from Bristol to Taunton and return
 
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PHILIPE

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ATW158Xpress said:
It would make more sence and comfort for Cardiff to Portsmouth to be loco hauled like in BR days but GWR not thinking common sence we stuck with 3+2 seats Turbos originally designed for commuter services with lack of tables and airline style seats with fold down trays for placing a tea/coffee or placing your phone to charge!
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Would there be enough locos and stock available. ? The stock, even though still in a cascading process, is available already.
 
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Bletchleyite

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ATW158Xpress said:
It would make more sence and comfort for Cardiff to Portsmouth to be loco hauled like in BR days but GWR not thinking common sence we stuck with 3+2 seats Turbos originally designed for commuter services with lack of tables and airline style seats with fold down trays for placing a tea/coffee or placing your phone to charge!
Click to expand...

Class 158s would be better.
 
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PHILIPE

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VT 390 said:
Would it not make more sense to put 4 coach HST's of Portsmouth Line services and Tuobo's on Cardiff-Taunton services as this service has more frequent stops than Portsmouth which better for 165/166 units, also the HST could use the full linespeed Bristol to Cardiff.
Click to expand...

The 4 coach HSTs are 4 coaches, the Turbos are 5 coach formations with more seating which is at the heart of running the Turbos on the route. As has been discussed already on various threads, there are route and restrictions with the couplings over the route.
 
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route101

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ForTheLoveOf said:
Exactly. Some of my friends recently debated going to London - whether they were going to drive or whether they would take the train. Taking the coach simply isn't an option for them, and I wasn't going to recommend it as it's an utterly farcical suggestion to most of them. If it takes longer than the car, most of them are not interested, even if it costs less than driving.
Click to expand...

Speaking to a guy other day and hes doing Glasgow to London on megabus overnight and back next night , asked why not the sleeper and he said it will be hours late .
 
LNW-GW Joint

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HamworthyGoods said:
There is a fundamental reason GB has not adopted this even though it has been looked at many times. It’s not a point blank we refuse to adopt it as you infer but for a safety reasons we simply can’t without risking our track workers.
GB has a different (smaller) loading gauge, which in a nutshell means the pair of lines in a two-track railway are just that little bit closer together, this means you can’t get the safe distance between the line being worked on and the adjacent open running line in many cases as you do on the continent, if GB used continental loading gauge it’d be a different story. It should also be pointed out a number of places have an even smaller clearance, something which often makes ‘putting things back’ difficult as any new infrastructure has to adopt compliant clearance.
This for example is why in HS1 the other night with the dewirement they were able to single line work as it’s continental gauge...
Click to expand...

HS2 will have bi-di signalling, so some time in the future it will be possible to have later services from London (though HS lines do have their own night maintenance regime).
The Trent Valley is bi-di equipped Rugby to Lichfield, and Sandbach to Cheadle Hulme - all very bitty.
It very poor that the recent full resignalling of Rugby-Birmingham-Stafford didn't include bi-di for this very congested route.
 
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The Planner

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HS2 will still have a white period, likely 0000 0500. Bi di in the West Mids was too expensive for what it would deliver, which isn't much. Bi di is there on the Chilterns north of Risborough and isn't used and it was also binned north of Oxford as part of that and Banbury resignalling.
 
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Muzer said:
OK, so now you're adding an extra constraint that the service has to be a Voyager (since none of these alternative routes are electrified), and you're adding route knowledge requirements for this last service for routes along which Virgin drivers don't commonly drive (I don't know how many of them, if any, would sign these routes). Again, not impossible, but you see how all these incremental things add up to really make the case difficult? (Incidentally, I'd imagine that in reality, you'd just bustitute the nights you can't get directly to Coventry and Birmingham International, and you'd have the train run straight to Birmingham New Street — but perhaps I'm wrong).

I don't disagree with you that it'd be nice to have later services. It's just the practicalities of these are not as straightforward as they may appear at first.
Click to expand...

OK then How about running via Stafford and reversing there instead and coming into New Street from the north? This has been done with the 23:30 SX from Euston on a few occasions where Wolverhampton is served first then New Street. Also you may not need to go as far as Stafford now that the Chase Line is wired.

Deafdoggie said:
In addition to Muzer points above, there’s no crew or stabling facilities at Coventry if you’re ending the train there after Birmingham. You’ve made it into a voyager, so it has to be fuelled. It will need cleaning and servicing anyway. Basically, it’s going to end up as a bus. Do people want a permanent bustituion? If so, why aren’t they already using National Express or Megabus?
How would you time this service? If it could be coming to Coventry from either direction, and direct from Rugby or via Nuneaton or via Birmingham? the printed timetable needs to show something Inevitably this will be the longest journey time (assuming train is set down only after Euston) thus making it unattractive to passengers.
Click to expand...

It would be set down for Coventry and Birmingham International and run normally with it re-timed STP for different routes, have a look at the 23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds which goes on a tour of Yorkshire. As far as stabling at Coventry I would expect it to return to New Street and not stable at Coventry. In terms of calling the wrong way round East Coast have done this when there have been blocks between Wakefield (excl) and Doncaster (excl) as the trains have run via Hambleton.

driver_m said:
Only Wolves depot sign Nuneaton-Birmingham for definite. Euston I don't know, and the Northern Depots definitely don't . Given that there's a lot of Preston depot work involving the WM, that 4 tracking claim isn't really a credible one.
Click to expand...

See above reference running via Stafford or Chase Line instead. I would have thought it would be a Wolves crew anyway given that the train ends its dau in the Midlands vice London. I couldn't see it being a London night turn.
 
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The Planner said:
HS2 will still have a white period, likely 0000 0500. Bi di in the West Mids was too expensive for what it would deliver, which isn't much. Bi di is there on the Chilterns north of Risborough and isn't used and it was also binned north of Oxford as part of that and Banbury resignalling.
Click to expand...

Not entirely sure how much engineering work can now be done under Bi-Directional working on the existing railway anymore. However it would help during disruption with failed trains and the like as Single Line Working seems to be pretty much frowned upon these days and the job just stops until the problem is resolved.
 
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Mathew S

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A very few Northern services have now appeared including some Hazel Grove - Blackpool North services timed as Class 323s via Bolton.
 
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driver_m

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Class 170101 said:
OK then How about running via Stafford and reversing there instead and coming into New Street from the north? This has been done with the 23:30 SX from Euston on a few occasions where Wolverhampton is served first then New Street. Also you may not need to go as far as Stafford now that the Chase Line is wired.



It would be set down for Coventry and Birmingham International and run normally with it re-timed STP for different routes, have a look at the 23:30 from Kings Cross to Leeds which goes on a tour of Yorkshire. As far as stabling at Coventry I would expect it to return to New Street and not stable at Coventry. In terms of calling the wrong way round East Coast have done this when there have been blocks between Wakefield (excl) and Doncaster (excl) as the trains have run via Hambleton.



See above reference running via Stafford or Chase Line instead. I would have thought it would be a Wolves crew anyway given that the train ends its dau in the Midlands vice London. I couldn't see it being a London night turn.
Click to expand...

No one signs the chase lines at VT and you'd be surprised at how some of the services are rostered at late hours .Crewe messroom is effectively Preston South Subdepot through the night. Euston used to sign Oxley depot as well . Not sure if they still do or whether that went with the MK3 stock .
 
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Muzer

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VT 390 said:
Would it not make more sense to put 4 coach HST's of Portsmouth Line services and Tuobo's on Cardiff-Taunton services as this service has more frequent stops than Portsmouth which better for 165/166 units, also the HST could use the full linespeed Bristol to Cardiff.
Click to expand...
Besides the points already mentioned, I have no idea if the HSTs being retained by GWR are short swing ling or long swing link, but if even some of them are the latter, this means they can't be used in third rail areas.
 
VT 390

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Could class 185's released from TPE be used in 6 car formations on Cardiff to Portsmouth services or would there not be enough of them?
 
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swt_passenger

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VT 390 said:
Would it not make more sense to put 4 coach HST's of Portsmouth Line services and Tuobo's on Cardiff-Taunton services as this service has more frequent stops than Portsmouth which better for 165/166 units, also the HST could use the full linespeed Bristol to Cardiff.
Click to expand...
HST power cars are out of gauge between St Denys and Fareham. It gets proposed every few months, but isn’t likely to happen as it would give no real advantages over the existing plans. The short HST is a short term fudge, they aren’t going to be around for ever.
 
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PHILIPE

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VT 390 said:
Could class 185's released from TPE be used in 6 car formations on Cardiff to Portsmouth services or would there not be enough of them?
Click to expand...

The maximum number of carriages for the route is 5 due to platform lengths. A little late for the May2019 Timetable now anyway.
 
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Mathew S

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Deafdoggie said:
Are all the SOT-MAN trains extending to Blackpool?
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At the moment those are literally the only ones in the system. If last year is anything to go by, the rest of the timetable will appear over the next month or so.
 
agbrs_Jack

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Deafdoggie said:
Are all the SOT-MAN trains extending to Blackpool?
Click to expand...

No just introducing an hourly Sunday service SOT-BPN. (plus one terminating at MAN)
15 each way plus one Mon-Fri morning peak and off peak.

Also reinstating the peak (used to be 1710 DGT-SOT, now 1721 MAN-MAC) service back to Stoke to meet the service level commitment (TSR1).

I hope these changes actually happen this time!
 
DaveHarries

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Just noticed on RealTimeTrains that SWR (South Western Railway) are making a few changes to services through Salisbury.

At present, 1L49 (1620 WAT-EXD) arrives at SAL and detaches 5L49 (1759 Salisbury - Salisbury T&RSMD). However RTT shows that, from 20-May-2019, the detatched unit will instead work as 1V49 (1801 SAL-BRI) which arrives BRI at 1909 and then returns from Bristol Temple Meads as 1O72 (1935 BRI-WAT). Interestingly 1O72 is, at present anyway, not shown as booked to join an EXD-WAT service at Salisbury (which most of the SWR workings from Bristol Temple Meads currently do).

It appears, in addition, that there will be more services between YVP (Yeovil Pen Mill) and WAT on Mondays to Fridays. For comparison:

Present:
Inbound:-
- 5V18 (0518 YVJ - YVP: detaches from 1V18 at YVJ)
- 1V35 (1250 WAT - YVP via. WSB & FRO, arr. YVP 1535)
- 1L39 (1350 WAT - YVP via. YVJ, arr. 1627)
- 1L55 (1750 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)

Outbound:-
- 1L18 (0541 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 1L58 (1544 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 2V14 (1631 YVP - YVJ)
- 1O64 (1653 YVP - SAL via. YVP, CLC & WSB: train is 1646 YVJ - SAL)
- 2V28 (2030 YVP - YVJ)
- 1L59 (2127 YVP - WSB via. CLC & FRO: train is 1850 WAT - WSB via. YVJ)

From 21st May and all shown as operating to 13-Dec-2019:
Inbound:-
- 5V18 (0518 YVJ - YVP: detaches from 1V18 at YVJ)
- 5V23 (0543 SAL - YVP via. WSB & CLC)
- 1V15 (0750 WAT - YVP via. WSB, FRO & CLC)
- 1L23 (0950 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 2O07 (1320 YVJ - YVP)
- 1L31 (1150 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1V35 (1250 WAT - YVP via. WSB, FRO & CLC)
- 1L39 (1350 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1L55 (1750 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1L59 (1850 WAT - WSB via. YVJ, YVP, CLC & FRO)

Outbound:-
- 1L18 (0541 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL: works off 5L18)
- 1O24 (0655 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: works off 5V23)
- 1O40 (1045 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: works off 1V15)
- 2V06 (1238 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L23)
- 1L50 (1344 YVP - WAT via. YVJ)
- 2V10 (1432 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L31)
- 1O56 (1500 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: starts from YVJ at 1453)
- 1L58 (1544 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 2V14 (1635 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L39)
- 1O64 (1653 YVP - SAL via. YVP, CLC & WSB: train is 1646 YVJ - SAL)
- 1L51 (1926 YVP - WSB via. CLC & FRO: train is 1650 WAT - WSB via. YVJ, CLC & FRO)
- 2V28 (2030 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L55)
- 2V30 (2130 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L59)

There is also an increase of SWR services through Westbury on Sundays:

Present:
- 1V33 (1355 SAL - BRI)
- 1O60 (1604 BRI - SAL)
- 1V77 (1710 SAL - FRO)
- 1O66 (1804 FRO - WAT)
- 1V81 (1955 SAL - BRI)
- 1O82 (2135 BRI - SAL)

From 19th May:
- 1O36 (0951 YVJ - WAT via. CLC, FRO & WSB)
- 1V21 (1055 SAL - BRI)
- 1O48 (1304 BRI - WAT)
- 1V33 (1355 SAL - BRI)
- 1O60 (1604 BRI - WAT)
- 1V77 (1812 RDG - FRO via. SAL & WSB)
- 1O66 (1804 FRO - WAT)
- 1V81 (1955 SAL - BRI)
- 1O82 (2135 BRI - SAL)

Sorry for the length of the post.

HTIOI,
Dave
 
johnnychips

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Please can you provide a key for all these abbreviations as per forum rules. It looks a very interesting post, but I really don’t want to have to Google each station code.
 
SprinterMan

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johnnychips said:
Please can you provide a key for all these abbreviations as per forum rules. It looks a very interesting post, but I really don’t want to have to Google each station code.
Click to expand...

WAT - London Waterloo
BSK - Basingstoke
SAL - Salisbury
YVP - Yeovil Pen Mill
YVJ - Yeovil Junction
WSB - Westbury
RDG - Reading
BRI - Bristol Temple Meads
FRO - Frome
CLC - Castle Cary
WSB - Westbury
 
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Bikeman78

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Class 170101 said:
Not entirely sure how much engineering work can now be done under Bi-Directional working on the existing railway anymore. However it would help during disruption with failed trains and the like as Single Line Working seems to be pretty much frowned upon these days and the job just stops until the problem is resolved.
Click to expand...
In my experience it normally takes Network Rail hours to get emergency single line working up and running. It would be so much easier if you get simply change the points and run past the failure as a normal signalled move.

Regarding engineering work, single line working is sometimes used between Newport and Shrewsbury late at night. I think it only affects the last train in each direction, but it is quite tedious with double reversals across trailing cross overs. Again, it would be much easier if the trains could cross to the other track under normal signalling.
 
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Muzer

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DaveHarries said:
Just noticed on RealTimeTrains that SWR (South Western Railway) are making a few changes to services through Salisbury.

At present, 1L49 (1620 WAT-EXD) arrives at SAL and detaches 5L49 (1759 Salisbury - Salisbury T&RSMD). However RTT shows that, from 20-May-2019, the detatched unit will instead work as 1V49 (1801 SAL-BRI) which arrives BRI at 1909 and then returns from Bristol Temple Meads as 1O72 (1935 BRI-WAT). Interestingly 1O72 is, at present anyway, not shown as booked to join an EXD-WAT service at Salisbury (which most of the SWR workings from Bristol Temple Meads currently do).

It appears, in addition, that there will be more services between YVP (Yeovil Pen Mill) and WAT on Mondays to Fridays. For comparison:

Present:
Inbound:-
- 5V18 (0518 YVJ - YVP: detaches from 1V18 at YVJ)
- 1V35 (1250 WAT - YVP via. WSB & FRO, arr. YVP 1535)
- 1L39 (1350 WAT - YVP via. YVJ, arr. 1627)
- 1L55 (1750 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)

Outbound:-
- 1L18 (0541 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 1L58 (1544 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 2V14 (1631 YVP - YVJ)
- 1O64 (1653 YVP - SAL via. YVP, CLC & WSB: train is 1646 YVJ - SAL)
- 2V28 (2030 YVP - YVJ)
- 1L59 (2127 YVP - WSB via. CLC & FRO: train is 1850 WAT - WSB via. YVJ)

From 21st May and all shown as operating to 13-Dec-2019:
Inbound:-
- 5V18 (0518 YVJ - YVP: detaches from 1V18 at YVJ)
- 5V23 (0543 SAL - YVP via. WSB & CLC)
- 1V15 (0750 WAT - YVP via. WSB, FRO & CLC)
- 1L23 (0950 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 2O07 (1320 YVJ - YVP)
- 1L31 (1150 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1V35 (1250 WAT - YVP via. WSB, FRO & CLC)
- 1L39 (1350 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1L55 (1750 WAT - YVP via. YVJ)
- 1L59 (1850 WAT - WSB via. YVJ, YVP, CLC & FRO)

Outbound:-
- 1L18 (0541 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL: works off 5L18)
- 1O24 (0655 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: works off 5V23)
- 1O40 (1045 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: works off 1V15)
- 2V06 (1238 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L23)
- 1L50 (1344 YVP - WAT via. YVJ)
- 2V10 (1432 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L31)
- 1O56 (1500 YVP - SAL via. CLC, FRO & WSB: starts from YVJ at 1453)
- 1L58 (1544 YVP - WAT via. YVJ & SAL)
- 2V14 (1635 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L39)
- 1O64 (1653 YVP - SAL via. YVP, CLC & WSB: train is 1646 YVJ - SAL)
- 1L51 (1926 YVP - WSB via. CLC & FRO: train is 1650 WAT - WSB via. YVJ, CLC & FRO)
- 2V28 (2030 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L55)
- 2V30 (2130 YVP - YVJ: works off 1L59)

There is also an increase of SWR services through Westbury on Sundays:

Present:
- 1V33 (1355 SAL - BRI)
- 1O60 (1604 BRI - SAL)
- 1V77 (1710 SAL - FRO)
- 1O66 (1804 FRO - WAT)
- 1V81 (1955 SAL - BRI)
- 1O82 (2135 BRI - SAL)

From 19th May:
- 1O36 (0951 YVJ - WAT via. CLC, FRO & WSB)
- 1V21 (1055 SAL - BRI)
- 1O48 (1304 BRI - WAT)
- 1V33 (1355 SAL - BRI)
- 1O60 (1604 BRI - WAT)
- 1V77 (1812 RDG - FRO via. SAL & WSB)
- 1O66 (1804 FRO - WAT)
- 1V81 (1955 SAL - BRI)
- 1O82 (2135 BRI - SAL)

Sorry for the length of the post.

HTIOI,
Dave
Click to expand...
I guess this might answer my question from the other thread on where the spare 159s cascaded from the Hampshire area peak extras are going!
 
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E6007

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agbrs_Jack said:
A good start, with 2044 and 2144 from CNG to BPN on Sundays :) (hoping the rest are to come.)

Virgin Trains services also on RTT now.
Click to expand...

Can't see much change (at least in services from Euston) from today's service but a few northbound services seem to be "missing":

SX 05:31, 14:30 and 15:43 Euston to Glasgow, SO 06:05 Euston to Glasgow.

They'll probably get added sometime
 
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PHILIPE

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E6007 said:
Can't see much change (at least in services from Euston) from today's service but a few northbound services seem to be "missing":

SX 05:31, 14:30 and 15:43 Euston to Glasgow, SO 06:05 Euston to Glasgow.

They'll probably get added sometime
Click to expand...

I wouldn't rely on RTT for about another month yet. Although the Timetable is agreed and the bulk there , there can still be some dotting the is and crossing the ts in progress so some trains may not be there at the present time but will appear in due course
 
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