matchmaker
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Fairfield loco going onto Govan Road from shipyard.
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Rails in the Road - not tramways
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Dr_Paul
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The Quayside at Newcastle had an extensive array of track on it, connected to the main line by way of a tightly-curved and steeply-graded tunnel. When I wandered around there in the late 1980s, much of the track was still in place, albeit disused, and the place had an atmosphere of dereliction about it. The quayside has since been refurbished as a leisure area; I don't know if whether any track still remains.
I visited Looe in Cornwall sometime in the late 1960s, and I'm pretty sure that the quayside had some track set in it; whether it was still in use by then I don't know.
I visited Watchet in Somerset in the early 1960s, and the quayside had track set in it. I don't recall which side of the dock this was: if it was the east side, it would have been former GWR track, if it was the west side, it would have been the remains of the West Somerset Railway.
A few years back there were a few fragments of track in the road and on the quayside at Caernarfon near to what is now the Welsh Highland Railway station, these were the remains of the sidings and slate wharves shown on this map. The last time I visited the town, they had been tarred over with the resurfacing of the road and general rebuilding.
I visited Looe in Cornwall sometime in the late 1960s, and I'm pretty sure that the quayside had some track set in it; whether it was still in use by then I don't know.
I visited Watchet in Somerset in the early 1960s, and the quayside had track set in it. I don't recall which side of the dock this was: if it was the east side, it would have been former GWR track, if it was the west side, it would have been the remains of the West Somerset Railway.
A few years back there were a few fragments of track in the road and on the quayside at Caernarfon near to what is now the Welsh Highland Railway station, these were the remains of the sidings and slate wharves shown on this map. The last time I visited the town, they had been tarred over with the resurfacing of the road and general rebuilding.
The terms "tram, tramroad, tramway" all predate the railway era, and don't particularly imply street running, so I don't think you can say #1 is the primary definition, though it is the commonest modern usage.
faltskog36abba
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I remember the mineral railway line over clayton vale which joined the Ashton branch. It then crossed Grimshaw lane on the level to enter Mather and platt in newton heath.
Deepgreen
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I think road and rail used to share the old bridge at Connel, near Oban until around the 1960s.
RSA BOB
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My farther was born in wood street and I worked at English Steel 1957/1963 and there was still Steam engines working the route and I stood and watched them.
matchmaker
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They did until the Ballachulish branch closed in 1966. Now cars only.
DerekC
Established Member
That's right - and the original usage was to describe what I think we now call a plateway - the cast iron tram plates had flanges and the wagons had plain (unflanged) wheels. Great for running the wagons off the track to access an adjacent yard or whatever. But it did make level crossings awkward! There were lots of them especially in South Wales and the Welsh Borders. They were all horse operated (apart from some experiments) and the technology proved incompatible with locomotive operation.
Dr_Paul
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theageofthetra
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This sort of arrangement is still fairly common in NZ. Remember driving over one on South Island where the line also ran through the middle of a roundabout
d9009alycidon
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The Connel Ferry Bridge do not have the "rails in the road" as this photograph shows, they ran side by side but could not use the bridge simultaneously do to lack of clearance. https://www.mediastorehouse.com/mary-evans-prints-online/connel-ferry-bridge-4331400.html
Jim
Well, My grandmother(!) was a crane driver at Armstrong-Whitworth (later English Steel),when still a teenager during WW1. While there, she met my grandad, a maintenance electrician at A-Ws. Romance blossomed and they lived happily ever after......
The story of how they met is amusing,but somewhat off-topic, like the last paragraph!
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
Huddersfield trams (and later trolleybuses*) was quite an extensive system, but only a few sections ever carried heavy rail freight wagons (mentioned upthread). There should be pictures available online I'd have thought, there's definitely been books published.
*=The trolleybus system also included a rare turntable at Longwood, which remained in place until the 1980s before being unceremoniously ripped up.
lord rathmore
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Rails to the fish docks ran along & across the road at Lowestoft. Short section still visible till recently.
Dr_Paul
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When did the harbour line fall out of use? As I wrote above, in the mid-1960s I saw a few wagons being towed -- by an agricultural tractor -- across the main road into the docks, but I had the feeling that by the late 1970s, the last time I regularly visited Lowestoft, the rail connection was disused.
As it is, the idea mooted above of having a rail-connected aggregates dock in Lake Lothing is a good one. Is there any other such facility on the East Anglian coast north of Ipswich; are the docks at King's Lynn still in use and rail-connected?
lord rathmore
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I believe the last traffic of fish offal ran in 1973, after which the line closed and was mostly lifted
Monarch010
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Trains used to run across Granton Square in Edinburgh. I believe it was originally the only connection between the Caledonian and North British systems.
I believe that was (is?) a standard for tram rails. Such rails are effectively a girder with a groove in the top rather than being one-sided as in conventional heavy rail. They are thus more easily cleaned by a "scrubber" and keep the tarmac (or mud, hopefully) within the four foot from being gradually squeezed into the flangeway by the passage of road vehicles. For this reason the groove is relatively shallow compared with a normal heavy railway flange, and trams themselves have shallower flanges. As you say, the tram gauge is arranged such that a heavy rail wheel runs in the groove on its flange.
I am not sure if this is still a standard; I don't know if any modern tram system has been built to accommodate heavy rail in street running - abroad perhaps.
Didnt blackpool tramway crane in mainline rail renewal plant for relaying? Maybe just the 'country' bit between Cleveleys and Fleetwood. Assume manchester trams have to do that too for their non street running bit.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
I've seen Glasgow quoted as having a specially narrow gauge so I think it was an exception in this respect. It's worth noting that if Glasgow trams had any sections using non-grooved rail on sleepers, the rail wagons would not have been able to run on them as the gauge would have been too narrow. By contrast, the rail wagons that ran on the Blackpool-Fleetwood line only did so on off-street sections where the rail was standard bullhead section presumably laid to standard gauge.
Main line renewal plant can run on plain line sleeper track of modern tramways subject to curve radii and clearances. But except on Metrolink it would derail on any points as the flangeway gaps are different.
Metrolink has a special wheel profile and raised check rails on off-street pointwork so heavy rail wagons etc can run on the off-street sections (the Rotherham tram-train uses a similar solution). There are connections near Altrincham and Victoria but they can only be used under possession. There was going to be another one in Rochdale using the reversing siding that occupies the stub end of the Oldham line, but I don't think it was ever connected.
No modern tramway street track is compatible with heavy rail wheels. Street or inset track designed for heavy rail has a much larger flangeway, often created as the gap between two closely-spaced bullhead rails similar to checkrails.
Two of the earliest British Standards (from memory of a visit to Crich) - in the Edwardian era - were for tram rails (I think the second superseded the first; and that one was BS 7) - what their subsequent history has been I don't know. Presumably there are now 'modern' standards with metric dimensions.
Glasgow and a few other systems (IIRC Portsmouth, Cork and (maybe) Huddersfield) had tramways with slightly narrower than standard gauge (4' 7 3/4", Cork 2'11 1/2"?) for conventional railway wagons to run on them, on the points of their flanges (which fitted in the grooves - so the base of the the groove, rather than the normal running surface, was bearing the wheel) from main line connections - not sure whence.
coupwotcoup
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The old brewery train used to cross Romford High Street - old enough to remember
seeing the odd train cross the road there back in the late 50s.
Think the last bit of track was lifted around ten years back but definitely embedded
into the road before it joined the main line.
seeing the odd train cross the road there back in the late 50s.
Think the last bit of track was lifted around ten years back but definitely embedded
into the road before it joined the main line.
coupwotcoup
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Picture from main line showing serious
curve that must have been a mare for drivers...
DerekC
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Nice picture - where is it? And does the curve run straight into a brick wall?
The connection at Victoria was removed a few years ago, it was plain-lined on the Up Rochdale Slow line and almost plain lined on the Outbound Metrolink line. The connection at Rochdale is indeed made, but I am not aware of anything ever using it.
Spartacus
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One place where all the admittedly short sections still remain is the access into the old Hunslet Engine Co. at the junction of Jack Lane and Pottery Road, Leeds.
Image from Yorkshire Evening Post dated 1993.
Image from Yorkshire Evening Post dated 1993.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
Many years ago I stayed in Bremen and just outside the hotel some kind of industrial branch of DB crossed the road including tramway. Quite interesting to see the special crossings with two flangeways of different profiles. Looking at Google it seems to have vanished, with a new road replacing the railway and flying over where the crossing used to be.
coupwotcoup
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Picture was taken from the main line form Liverpool Street to Southend et al.
The curve went under the bridge and into Romford brewery. From what I know/recall
the trains came out loaded with barrels etc and having negotiated the curve, then
reversed onto the other line [the one with wagons on] and joined the main line
further up the track towards Chadwell Heath.
The trains didn't cross the High Street, the siding crossed The Battis, the footpath running alongside the railway from North Street to Waterloo Road. I remember walking past with my mother and being dissapointed that nothing was happening on the sidings although there was a wagon parked there. When I was 11 and using the train to school I would make a point of going into the waiting room on platform 5 to look out of the window into the brewery yard but never saw any traffic. That would have been in late 62 or early 63.
The line when through one of the arches in the viaduct carrying the GEML and into the lower goods yard at street level.
Dr_Paul
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