Logically it would make sense to run the Penolinos on the WCML until HS2 opens and then replace them with high speed EMUs.
-
Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!
WCML InterCity Franchise
- Thread starter Whistler40145
- Start date
- Status
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R
RailUK Forums
That is your opinion. Other enthusiasts might share it. The evidence suggests that the vast majority of the public do not.
Sadly it doesn't any more. Now Arriva and boy have things got worse...
357
Established Member
- Joined
- 12 Nov 2018
- Messages
- 1,371
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
Ummm.... Pendolinos are high speed EMUs aren't they?
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
But then they would have a monopoly between Preston & Carlisle.
And with that & MTR being investigated for corruption, the DafT will probably have to reconsider kicking Stagecoach off the bidding process.
Aictos
Established Member
- Joined
- 28 Apr 2009
- Messages
- 10,403
Well yes l guess, but l was thinking more like 350s...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Spain has an extremely profitable and wide-ranging coach network. That tells you what you need to know
gimmea50anyday
Established Member
TPE may well be ticking the right boxes as far as the DfT are concerned but there are many on the coal face who would disagree with your observation there...
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The new TPE are making the right noises, but classically I found TPE to be poorly-run and institutionally quite arrogant. And then there are the serious management issues surrounding things like the use of the "Pretendolino" set.
Class 185s have a posh interior, but that doesn't make the TOC well managed.
Personally couldn't imagine the 390 fleet being withdrawn before at least the mid 2030s. They are only half life after all and can't be used in tilt mode on any other line. The only alternative being to isolate or remove tilt equipment al la the XC Voyagers and use them either without tilt or elsewhere.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Doesn't it depend who wins?
Possibly not red.
The repainted fleets (390 and 221) are predominantly white, with TOC branding only on the driving cars and coach windows.
DfT will probably have to endorse the TOC name.
But if the public have been hoodwinked?
Isn't that what the Ramoaners are moaning about? Being mis-led?
Because you can't say Virgin don't intentionally mis-lead people into thinking they are something that they're not
So?
exLondon Midland (whoever runs this service now) have the monopoly between Rugby and Tile Hill.
Northampton and London is only one choice (yes, Virgin run one train a day but that doesn't really count for most people).
St Albans City and London? That's right, just one operator.
Birmingham and Peterborough? One choice there too.
Yes, for some journeys there are other ways to get there but nobody would intentionally spend more/go an hour out of their way just to avoid the most direct route.
It's where I don't understand this stupid competition thing.
Seems to work in some places but not others.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
The competitors are the car, the aeroplane and the road coach.
Spatting with other train operators is pointless faff over a tiny number of passengers.
pdeaves
Established Member
Agreed; unfortunately the competition authority gets het up over a tiny number of passengers.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
There does need to be recognition that public transport is different from most other things, and that monopolies do provide significant advantages. For instance, bus travel is a monopoly in most towns and cities (certainly smaller ones), and this works fine - companies don't take the mick on fares, by and large, even though they could do so.
TPEs 350s anyway, over time, appear to have proved less reliable on the WCML than the considerably older 390s have done
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
That has to be poor maintenance. LM/LNR's have won Golden Spanners repeatedly for high reliability.
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
It would be interesting to compare the two similar subfleets, 350/4 at TPE and 350/3 at LNR.
I think both these builds have add-ons that the 350/1 and /2 haven't (TMS-type functionality), and are not identical to each other either.
TPE's units also have to endure worse weather over the hills, and get outstationed maintenance in Scotland (ie not Siemens).
tbtc
Veteran Member
re the above two posts - if the Government were relaxed about Stagecoach having the main InterCity TOC on the WCML, the MML and the ECML at the same time (other than, weirdly, concern over the Grantham - Peterborough market) or First having SWR and GWR at the same time (or Arriva having Northern/ XC/ Grand Central) then I don't think that the Preston - Carlisle market will be a problem. Similarly, one company was always going to have the massive "monopoly" that a mega-franchise like TSGN grants.
Given the dwindling number of bidders (as the likes of National Express have left the market and Stagecoach/Virgin appear to be leaving) I think we are going to have to get used to one company owning adjacent TOCs.
But if the public have been hoodwinked?
Isn't that what the Ramoaners are moaning about? Being mis-led?
Because you can't say Virgin don't intentionally mis-lead people into thinking they are something that they're not
Are Virgin misleading people?
Or just advertising a positive version of themselves, that pretty much every large company does (outside the railway world)?
I'm not sure that people have been "hoodwinked" into travelling by train - it's what most people would call marketing.
StaffsWCML
Member
- Joined
- 10 Apr 2019
- Messages
- 221
But if the public have been hoodwinked?
Isn't that what the Ramoaners are moaning about? Being mis-led?
Because you can't say Virgin don't intentionally mis-lead people into thinking they are something that they're not
The public haven't been hoodwinked.
Virgin may well be (Comparatively) awful, when compared to something we don't have in UK railways full stop. Any awfulness they have is mainly caused by the old decrepit unions, their outdated BR ways of thinking and working that should be consigned to history.
Compared to the majority of bland faceless dross we have, they are a breath of fresh air and offer something different to the market place. The have revolutionised services on the West Coast Mainline in the past 20 years and it is far ahead of any other line in the UK in terms of service/reliability.
If we think First Group or the Chinese (who have no idea of the concepts of operating on a Victorian railway), will improve things we are deluded.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
But, once again (and everyone seems to be missing this absolutely fundamental point), Virgin Rail Group did not bid. The bid was a branded Stagecoach bid. It would have been like VTEC or EMT or SWT, not like VTWC, which I agree is generally a very good TOC.
nuts & bolts
Member
It's time for a change, The Virgin brand along with gimmicks that a aspiring manager comes up with to make a name for him/herself at HQ does not appeal to me.
Robertj21a
On Moderation
- Joined
- 22 Sep 2013
- Messages
- 7,520
LNW-GW Joint
Veteran Member
Hopefully the railway professionals at Stagecoach and Virgin will still be working on the system somewhere.
Their exit from the East Coast franchise doesn't seem to have changed much over there, with much the same branding and the same management team.
"Time for a change" was something not offered by BR, though Chris Green had a good go in his BR days.
I think Virgin Trains (and their Network Rail partners on the WCML) have a lot to be proud of over 22 years, warts and all (and there were some).
Their exit from the East Coast franchise doesn't seem to have changed much over there, with much the same branding and the same management team.
"Time for a change" was something not offered by BR, though Chris Green had a good go in his BR days.
I think Virgin Trains (and their Network Rail partners on the WCML) have a lot to be proud of over 22 years, warts and all (and there were some).
- Status