Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
Though if there's too much of this, if they can spare a 153 (even by short forming in the Brum area) they should probably send a second one down so the line doesn't lose its credibility by too many outright cancellations.
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Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail
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Though if there's too much of this, if they can spare a 153 (even by short forming in the Brum area) they should probably send a second one down so the line doesn't lose its credibility by too many outright cancellations.
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DarloRich
Veteran Member
they have got 2 x 230 on hand. It should be enough.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
You'd think so, but there is the risk of a fault being discovered that is an issue with both, e.g. a design issue affecting safety.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
There is. However I think the risk in this regard is minimal. more of a concern is the usual entry into service teething troubles / standard Kempston Hardwick level crossing failure!
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
What is the issue at Kempston Hardwick? With the amount of faffing they're doing it it would probably be easier and cheaper to replace it.
DarloRich
Veteran Member
I am told ( no idea if correct!) the issue is that the whole signalling system installed on the Vale was some kind of one off, experimental system and that getting spares is often a big issue. I suspect it will be replaced by E-W
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
The engines work fine in a 3300 KG Transit or 1968 KG Ranger but they're always going to have issues trying to move a train. I can see them being replaced with 1 larger engine designed for industrial use.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
They don't "move a train", they turn a generator at optimal operating speed, so arguably a much easier life than at the front of a Transit being ragged to death by white van man. The thing that might be an issue is the very different nature of the shocks and vibrations you get on a steel wheeled rail vehicle as against a rubber tyred road vehicle, and also possibly differing air flows.
zn1
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as i recall from a long time ago - kempston Crossing was operated by track operated "treddle" mechanism...was a pain when line before it was resignalled, i suspect nothing has changed with it
Have you actually ridden on a Class 230/seen one in action?
I have yet to sample one as a passenger out on the main line but rode around the circuit at Long Marston on 230001 and have seen all the Bedford-Bletchley trio out on test runs on the Cotswold Line. The generator sets have no trouble whatever moving a train.
Most hydrogen production in the UK is centred around the chloralkali industry in and around Runcorn. If you're going to run a hydrogen trial you would do it there as hauling hydrogen to Windermere or elsewhere would cost a fortune.
Most hydrogen is made by steam reformation of methane, as electrolysis is expensive (although may be viable as a way of utilising renewable electricity at times when supply exceeds demand).
Personally, if I was vivarail I'd be looking at a CNG/hydrogen combustion engine version rather than hydrogen fuel cell. There's a possibility that the natural gas grid will in the not too distant future start to contain a proportion of hydrogen, with partial or full conversion to pure hydrogen further down the line.
Aictos
Established Member
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Thanks for that, I wondered what the actual issue was - knew it had failed but didn’t know what of.
edwin_m
Veteran Member
How does a hydrogen IC engine compare with diesel for particulates and NOx.
water is the only output to exhaust
Apart from the PMs due to engine wear and engine oil.
NOx will still be formed because of the combustion temperatures in the cylinders.
NOx and PM will be very similar to HP direct injection LNG.
Blimey, I knew these trains were magical but they've reinvented how a DEMU works? They should patent this new electric motor and give up making trains, there's a serious fortune to be made and it's not from selling refurbished trains.
Bletchleyite
Veteran Member
I think you've missed the point there. An underpowered engine (not that they are, but let's say they are) running via a regular transmission is going to find things very difficult - labouring etc or over-revving. Run it via an electric transmission and it'll just generate electricity at optimum speed and the train will do what it can with that electricity.
kieron
Established Member
They have infrastructure for a few hydrogen-powered buses in London (according to the GLA web site), so it could be convenient to run a trial somewhere near there.
Hydrogen trains are going to be expensive wherever you run them, though, so the best place to run a trial will just be wherever someone is willing to pay a fortune for it.
Metal_gee_man
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So it seems that TFL have just dropped £12m + £5m of EU money on some new Hydrogen Powered Double Decker Buses, they claim the cost vs Diesel is about the same
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...uses-to-be-introduced-in-london-a4139256.html
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/tra...uses-to-be-introduced-in-london-a4139256.html
Ted172
Member
Why? Aren't they in debt?
Metal_gee_man
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Yes...yes they are! And yet they are more committed to a cleaner greener London than they are their bank balance ✔️
Xenophon PCDGS
Veteran Member
Seems that this is a strategic move to obtain EU finance before that particular pot of gold vanishes.
delticdave
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Said infrastructure is located at the newish Lea Interchange Bus Garage, quite close to a railway line but it's not suitable for a rail connection. Google maps / skyview will explain why
Brilliant. You phrased that so much better than I was going to. A lot of these concepts would struggle if we only looked at the bottom line. And in the mean time we're all breathing 'dirty' air.
The price versus the value huh...
700007
Established Member
To be more specific, they're committed to spending millions they don't have on ripping up much of zone 1, 2 and 3 London to convert into cycleways to provide a 'safer and happier' public experience in the area they do these works only to continue to be used by the same few people that were using it before afterwards, creating no revenue from it.
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