Creation of class 230 DEMUs from ex-LU D78s by Vivarail

[Ianno87]

Does anyone know if they will be running on Monday?

Marston Vale doesn't operate on Bank Holidays, IIRC

 

[Brissle Girl]

Marston Vale doesn't operate on Bank Holidays, IIRC

a quick check on RTT suggests it is running. As I understand it with the 150 gone at least one of the sets is needed for a normal 2 train service?

 

[NoMorePacers]

So when are the 150s coming to Northern and where will they be operating?

 

[class387]

Had a lovely ride on 230005 earlier from Bletchley to Bedford and back. Here are some observations:

• The most obvious thing was how quiet it was. Far quieter than any Sprinter, 165 or the 319 I took earlier and possibly even quieter than a Turbostar. The diesel engine is only noticeable when idling and immediately on departure (before the IGBT inverter kicks in). As said, the only sound at speed is a slight whine from the transformer. Quite brilliant.
• The ride quality was very smooth on CWR and no worse than any other train on jointed rail, with absolutely no rattles. There was also very little vibration when idling, less than any other DMU I've been on.
• The longitudinal, deep sprung LUL seats are as comfortable as ever and the USB ports are a lovely touch. It is also great that they chose moquette rather than the flat cloth that seems to popular at the moment. The facing seats are Quantum - firm, but more comfortable than Fainsa as it is better contoured. Tables are nice to have and it's good that Vivarail tried to align seats with windows, even though that's difficult with the smaller (ex-door) windows.
• Overall the interior of the train has been done up very nicely - the artwork on the toilet and posters make the atmosphere very pleasant, an the train feels bright and airy. I am personally not a fan of the green used for grab rails, but it fits well with the train and LNR's corporate identity. You can definitely see its London Underground origins though.
  
• My main complaint is the lack of bins. There was a fair amount of litter scattered around the train when I boarded, which is fair enough if there is no where to put them! I really hope this gets rectified soon - it would make journeys much more pleasant. Some luggage space would be nice too.
• The inter carriage gangways are still not as refined as mainline stock - you can tell that they were designed for emergency use only. I made the mistake of using them while going over points and it was very shaky. The gangway door lock mechanism is also strange, though there are probably PRM reasons behind that.
  
• I do wonder whether a toilet is needed for this route - the train got very full today (how often does this happen - could a local advise?) and more seats might be better.
• The train lost a bit of time waiting for the guard to release the door as he was selling tickets - would driver open, guard close be suitable for this route?

Overall, I would rate the train a solid 9/10. It is far, far better than the old trains and better than most modern DMUs. The unrivalled quietness really is a great USP for the 230. Vivarail have done brilliantly - after the fire in 2016 I honestly thought I would never travel on a 230, but they have exceeded everyone's expectations. It really shows the value of perseverance and attention to detail. Congratulations Vivarail!

 

[AM9]

For short distances and regenerative braking, capacitors are far better, especially when absorbing braking energy and (unlike batteries) can be expected to last the lifetime of the train.

I've made another video of the 230 D-Train - this time a comparison between these trains as D-Stock / D-Train - slowing down for stations, accelerating away afterwards, arriving at a terminus station. At present this film is unlisted on YouTube - that will change when I get around to adding the video text.

What is very apparent is just how much slower these trains were on the District line. I wonder if this is because the line speed was only 45mph? (which is quite a bit slower than the Central line, for instance).

Next, a comparison film showing full station to station rides.

Interesting video. When I rode on 230004 on Wednesday, I noted that it sounded like ER braking, as it does in the video. Does anybody here know whether it is and whether the D78s had it fitted from introduction?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Just saw this now, absolutely brilliant. Genuinely made me laugh and was better constructed and more thorough than @Bletchleyite one earlier upthread.

 

[Bletchleyite]

True, although they could just put out a "sorry, this service is formed of only 1 car today" message like they did yesterday (the 153 ended up on the 2 car diagram as far as I could tell).

The PIS already seems to have been set for all services 2-car as I saw that message the other night having got off the 153 at Bletchley which was correctly on the 153 diagram.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I do wonder whether a toilet is needed for this route - the train got very full today (how often does this happen - could a local advise?) and more seats might be better

No, normally the only time it's busy is the two school trains, the rest of the time it's a bay of seats for everyone. I'd expect it's been busy today because Euston is closed so people have been using it to travel via Bedford and Thameslink to London rather than having to put up with replacement buses. Personally I believe the 230s with bog (it is a 45 minute run, near enough, with toilets only available at the end stations) are spot on capacity-wise.

The train lost a bit of time waiting for the guard to release the door as he was selling tickets - would driver open, guard close be suitable for this route?

In my book it is suitable for absolutely every route (and is already widely used), and yes, it'd save about 5-10 seconds per stop in this case.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

No, normally the only time it's busy is the two school trains, the rest of the time it's a bay of seats for everyone. I'd expect it's been busy today because Euston is closed so people have been using it to travel via Bedford and Thameslink to London rather than having to put up with replacement buses. Personally I believe the 230s with bog (it is a 45 minute run, near enough, with toilets only available at the end stations) are spot on capacity-wise.


In my book it is suitable for absolutely every route (and is already widely used), and yes, it'd save about 5-10 seconds per stop in this case.

In passing , and slightly OT - the service offer from Bedford to London was a bit thin - 2 x GTR - some 8 car workings , and would you believe it a 4 car ex Corby to Pancras. All horribly crowded and in the case of the up Corby - did not take any passengers on at BDM as it was so full (so I am told)

Not exactly putting the passenger first here - at a time when the GTR sidings are no doubt packed solid with stock , snoozing away the weekend. Or was it too much effort to shunt out a 12 car from the sidings ?

 

[HLE]

The plan for those 8 153s will be interesting. They were going to EMT a year ago but it's all gone quiet. Could do worse than keep them for strengthening the Birmingham services.

 

[Mag_seven]

ER braking

What does "ER" stand for please?

 

[Class172]

What does "ER" stand for please?

I'd hazard a guess at these.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd hazard a guess at these.

I think rheostatic, i.e. using the traction motors. Don't know if they do or not, TBH.

 

[Aictos]

In passing , and slightly OT - the service offer from Bedford to London was a bit thin - 2 x GTR - some 8 car workings , and would you believe it a 4 car ex Corby to Pancras. All horribly crowded and in the case of the up Corby - did not take any passengers on at BDM as it was so full (so I am told)

Not exactly putting the passenger first here - at a time when the GTR sidings are no doubt packed solid with stock , snoozing away the weekend. Or was it too much effort to shunt out a 12 car from the sidings ?

To be fair, EMT were also not accepting passengers at one point from Luton on/off the Corby services but TL at Bedford actually were proactive in advising people that the EMT services will be very popular and it would be better to use the TL services especially the 12 car ones.

As it stood, when I went though Bedford earlier I can count the number of people on one hand who took the EMT and probably stood all the way to London rather then get a spacious with lots of seats 12 car TL!

I know there was plenty of 8 car units in Bedford sidings as well as one in the Luton Cresent Road Sidings, bear in mind TL were running 12 cars from Bedford and 8 cars from Luton to spread the loadings as to EMT they could have cancelled the Corby services today and instead put stop orders on the Nottinghams/Sheffields to ensure Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough and Kettering still had a service with Corby having a rail replacement bus service with the Class 222s instead of running the Corbys being used to strengthen the EMT services to Sheffield and Nottingham.

So I can't see why EMT ought to get away with no blame as they should have cancelled the Corbys and operated a rail replacement bus to Kettering, just shows what they think!

 

[DarloRich]

Marston Vale doesn't operate on Bank Holidays, IIRC

a quick check on RTT suggests it is running. As I understand it with the 150 gone at least one of the sets is needed for a normal 2 train service?

The vale does now run on bank holidays. Such a service started this year. Coming soon: Sunday services!!!!!!

 

[Silverlinky]

So when are the 150s coming to Northern and where will they be operating?

Went to Oldham today and saw 150107 at the end of one of the lines of units at Newton Heath in LM Livery with branding removed.

 

[hooverboy]

In passing , and slightly OT - the service offer from Bedford to London was a bit thin - 2 x GTR - some 8 car workings , and would you believe it a 4 car ex Corby to Pancras. All horribly crowded and in the case of the up Corby - did not take any passengers on at BDM as it was so full (so I am told)

Not exactly putting the passenger first here - at a time when the GTR sidings are no doubt packed solid with stock , snoozing away the weekend. Or was it too much effort to shunt out a 12 car from the sidings ?

GTR are back to 4tph at weekends from bedford as of 19th may.

 

[Aictos]

GTR are back to 4tph at weekends from bedford as of 19th may.

Indeed however on the 19th although there are 4tph, that is formed of 1tph to Three Bridges/Brighton each and 2tph to Gatwick Airport with a half hourly service to St Pancras Int the following weekend of the 25th/26th May with the first weekend of May being the first time a full 4tph will be in use with 4tph to Gatwick Airport with 2tph continuing onto Brighton.

However no terminators at Luton on Saturdays only Sundays until Dec I think if we're lucky?

 

[AM9]

GTR are back to 4tph at weekends from bedford as of 19th may.

That's true but TL is running a split service over the long weekend as there's work going on between Carlton Road and Dock Junction. I know that getting 4 trains per hour (2 x Bedford, 2 x Luton) in and out of STP P1 isn't that difficult, but with the random nature of bank holiday weather and travel volumes, running 6 or 8 tph might cause some disturbance to other MML services.

 

[Aictos]

As to the Class 230s I had a trip on one yesterday and apart from a delay at Woburn Sands, actually went quite well.

Was quite impressed with the interior although it would have been nice if someone was available to do a litter pick during the 20 minute or so turnaround at Bletchley as one end of the train had countless empty beer cans littering the area.

Other then that, wow certainly a step up from the Sprinters even if they are of similar ages?

 

[Egg Centric]

The vale does now run on bank holidays. Such a service started this year. Coming soon: Sunday services!!!!!!

It was indeed running. Drove to Lidlington on the theory that with 4 minutes between trains, we'd be able to stand on one platform and if that wasn't the 230 have time to move to the other. Proved unnecessary to put that plan to the test as the PIS on the Bedford platform talked about a 2 car train, the Bletchley platform a 1 car train.

The exterior is as Thomas the Tank Engine would say, "splendid", but have to say I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the interior - the floor looks to me like it's what was on the D Stock, and the windows too (which were grimy) - including the heavily scratched surrounds. The toilet exterior seemed fairly shoddily put together and there was a crack in the white stuff around the exterior too. The engine seemed noisier than actual transits I have driven (accept this may be because of different standards on a train). Also, when we tried to enter, the button didn't work (even after the beep as explained we needed to wait for by one of the several guards on it, cause the light doesn't work either) so we had to change door.

Oh and we were about half an hour late at Bedford. Not sure exactly why but we had to pass a couple of signals at danger and there were blokes at level crossings, so I assume some kind of problem nothing to do with the stock. Never noticed any particularly exciting accelleration.

All that said, I may be being a bit harsh - it's perfectly decent at doing its job, and I don't know what I was expecting really. But it's not very interesting, and I wouldn't recommend making a trip out to see it. If you want to try something unusual on national rail metals, go to Stourbridge instead!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The door issue is that the button is not enabled (and doesn't light up) until several seconds into the "doors have been released" PRM beep. This really needs fixing; it is causing about 5 seconds of delay per station completely unnecessarily.

 

[A0wen]

I know there was plenty of 8 car units in Bedford sidings as well as one in the Luton Cresent Road Sidings, bear in mind TL were running 12 cars from Bedford and 8 cars from Luton to spread the loadings as to EMT they could have cancelled the Corby services today and instead put stop orders on the Nottinghams/Sheffields to ensure Luton, Bedford, Wellingborough and Kettering still had a service with Corby having a rail replacement bus service with the Class 222s instead of running the Corbys being used to strengthen the EMT services to Sheffield and Nottingham.

So I can't see why EMT ought to get away with no blame as they should have cancelled the Corbys and operated a rail replacement bus to Kettering, just shows what they think!

Slightly OT this - however I don't think the Corby's are run as discreet diagrams? As in a set to Corby has been formed of an inbound from Sheffield and vice versa - so losing the Corby's would probably have screwed up the timetable in a different way?

 

[Clip]

The vale does now run on bank holidays. Such a service started this year. Coming soon: Sunday services!!!!!!

You steady on with your excitement there sir - you will do yourself an injury with such a luxury

 

[DarloRich]

It was indeed running. Drove to Lidlington on the theory that with 4 minutes between trains, we'd be able to stand on one platform and if that wasn't the 230 have time to move to the other. Proved unnecessary to put that plan to the test as the PIS on the Bedford platform talked about a 2 car train, the Bletchley platform a 1 car train.

The exterior is as Thomas the Tank Engine would say, "splendid", but have to say I'm distinctly underwhelmed by the interior - the floor looks to me like it's what was on the D Stock, and the windows too (which were grimy) - including the heavily scratched surrounds. The toilet exterior seemed fairly shoddily put together and there was a crack in the white stuff around the exterior too. The engine seemed noisier than actual transits I have driven (accept this may be because of different standards on a train). Also, when we tried to enter, the button didn't work (even after the beep as explained we needed to wait for by one of the several guards on it, cause the light doesn't work either) so we had to change door.

Oh and we were about half an hour late at Bedford. Not sure exactly why but we had to pass a couple of signals at danger and there were blokes at level crossings, so I assume some kind of problem nothing to do with the stock. Never noticed any particularly exciting accelleration.

All that said, I may be being a bit harsh - it's perfectly decent at doing its job, and I don't know what I was expecting really. But it's not very interesting, and I wouldn't recommend making a trip out to see it. If you want to try something unusual on national rail metals, go to Stourbridge instead!

Sounds like the standard kemspton hardwick level crossing failure!

 

[causton]

I think rheostatic, i.e. using the traction motors. Don't know if they do or not, TBH.

The good news is, they do. The bad news is, it is just expelled as heat.

The door issue is that the button is not enabled (and doesn't light up) until several seconds into the "doors have been released" PRM beep. This really needs fixing; it is causing about 5 seconds of delay per station completely unnecessarily.

This, this and also this! I would also much prefer driver open, guard close (like you, on lots of other lines as well...)

 

[AM9]

What does "ER" stand for please?

Sorry, maybe I shouldn't have abbreviated it. ER in the context of railway braking systems on trains propelled by electric motors means Electro-Rheostatic braking.
Traction motors act as generators when driven by inertia (or gravity on an incline). If the generated current is connected to a load, the dissipation of that generated power exerts a braking force on the motor. This effect was used on electric locos and EMUs as it avoided much of the wear and tear on brake shoes and/or disc pads. The resistor banks were there as part of the control equipment for the motors anyway, so it was a low-cost add-on to get those benefits.
With the development of electronic traction control, it is now common practice to convert the generated power from braking to a voltage that can be fed back into the power supply, (25kV ac OLE or 750VDC 3rd rail), which reduces the total effective power used to propel the train. ER braking was also introduced on diesel-electric vehicles and is still used as there is no electrical supply to feed it back into.
When travelling on an EMU, you can usually hear the difference between tread/disc brakes and ER or Regenerative braking as the motors will make a noise similar to that when they are accelerating (except the tone falls instead of rising) as the motors are being loaded. This effect becomes less effective below about 20mph so the mechanical brakes are blended in to bring the train to a standstill.
Hope that helps.

 

[swt_passenger]

I think rheostatic, i.e. using the traction motors. Don't know if they do or not, TBH.

Rheostatic means using onboard resistor banks rather than the supply side.

 

[delticdave]

Rheostatic means using onboard resistor banks rather than the supply side.

Often described as "dynamic braking" in N. America diesel locomotives & used to control train speeds on downgrades. Makes sense given the limitations of single-pipe air-brakes on long trains. ISTR that modern 3-phase drive diesels can use their dynamic brakes to bring a train a complete standstill, & even hold a train on a gradient by applying power to the motors. Said locos do have really big dynamic brake cooling fans. I've watched a 100+ car train stop for a crew change just using the loco brakes, rather than wait to recharge the air brakes.

 

[edwin_m]

Dynamic, rheostatic or regenerative braking saves wear on the brake pads, and on a purely friction-braked train pad replacement is probably the most frequent maintenance activity. It should also reduce particulate emissions as friction brakes are one source for these.