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Scotrail collects 2nd improvement notice

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El Blanco

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This is good news on the face of it.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...-6-5-per-cent-salary-bump-to-51-500-1-4914758
ScotRail drivers have won a bumper 6.5 per cent pay increase which will take their salaries to £51,500 in 18 months’ time, The Scotsman has learned.

The deal is tied to more flexible working to minimise disruption when new services are introduced next month.

It is also seen as an attempt to stem the exodus of drivers to better-paying operators such as Transpennine Express....
Looks like all parties have come together on this. What’s the split of ASLEF and non-ASLEF members within the drivers group? Will this make a big difference?
 
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cb a1

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Never been asked never seen a customer surveyed or interviewed in 20 years of rail travel . I do witness day in day out week in week out a high level of dissatisfaction amongst most fellow passengers.
I've been commuting by rail for
over 13 years.
In that time:
I've been surveyed three times, on train, with a 4 page A4 size questionairre.
Since signing up, I receive surveys maybe 2 or 3 times a year from Passenger Focus.
I'm one of the passengers who are generally very satisfied with the service.
 

380101

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This is good news on the face of it.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/trans...-6-5-per-cent-salary-bump-to-51-500-1-4914758

Looks like all parties have come together on this. What’s the split of ASLEF and non-ASLEF members within the drivers group? Will this make a big difference?

Almost all ScotRail drivers are ASLEF. Less than 10 RMT I think. However, due to the collective bargaining agreement all staff in the grade get the pay and conditions regardless of what union they are in.
 

Mingulay

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463
I've been commuting by rail for
over 13 years.
In that time:
I've been surveyed three times, on train, with a 4 page A4 size questionairre.
Since signing up, I receive surveys maybe 2 or 3 times a year from Passenger Focus.
I'm one of the passengers who are generally very satisfied with the service.


They must hunt you down as a "banker" lol!

May I ask are you travelling in peak services and on what route ?
 

Mulson

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Stirlingshire
Never completed a passenger survey but if I did I would be of the same opinion as cb a1.

Travelling between Polmont and Haymarket daily for the past 6 years. I can deal with some of the short-term problems (crew-shortages, cancellations etc) we have faced as I can see the ultimate deliverable will be a better service for me. I understand not everyone has the flexibility offered by my employer to be able to deal with this but personally my feedback would be representative of my situation, as you would expect.

I can also see the bigger picture and can empathise that some of the issues Abellio Scotrail have faced were, to a certain extent, unforeseen (i.e. @#!7 happens).

Suppose its just not in my DNA to get all frothy-mouthed about some of this stuff.
 

DuncanS

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Falkirk
I've been commuting by rail for
over 13 years.
In that time:
I've been surveyed three times, on train, with a 4 page A4 size questionairre.
Since signing up, I receive surveys maybe 2 or 3 times a year from Passenger Focus.

I'm the same I'm an e-mail link to a web questionnaire for Scotrail, have been for about 4 years or so.
 

cb a1

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They must hunt you down as a "banker" lol!

May I ask are you travelling in peak services and on what route ?
The on train surveys are given out to everyone on the train.

For the last 12 years I've been commuting from Dundee to Queen St. As a commuter, I'm generally on peak services. I do travel to other locations in Scotland, most typically Edinburgh once or twice a week. The handy thing with a Dundee to Glasgow season ticket is that 'via Edinburgh' is a permitted route which means I can get to and from a lot of stations in the triangle Dundee - Glasgow - Edinburgh.
 

Ginaro

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Scotland
I notice Scotrail are on track to end the month with their best PPM (currently 90.2%) since August, and only the fourth time since September 2017 they've been above 90%. http://trains.im/ppmhistorical/SR/monthly Hopefully the upwards trend continues and things don't go wrong with the timetable change.

Still a lot of work to get up to that 92.5% moving annual average though...
 

alangla

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Looking at Journeycheck every morning, the scale of the daily farce seems to be declining, so things are going in the right direction. Again, hopefully the new timetable will go well & the impact from TPE’s poaching/attracting drivers can be contained
 

hooky3

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Looking at Journeycheck every morning, the scale of the daily farce seems to be declining, so things are going in the right direction. Again, hopefully the new timetable will go well & the impact from TPE’s poaching/attracting drivers can be contained

Certainly some improvement, Journey Check appears to be showing no planned cancellations today for ScotRail and most HSTs running.
 

alangla

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Glasgow
Think there’s possibly a different strategy going on with the short forms - previously there was loads of 3 vs 4 & 2 vs 3, now there seems to be more 2 vs 4, presumably if HSTs are being subbed it’s for 1 or 2 158s. There are very, very few short forms compared to a couple of weeks ago though
 

mcmad

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Is it not that the majority of staff are now trained on the classics so fewer substitutions required? The last couple of days has it not been 7 or 8 of the planned 9 (10?) turns covered by HST's?
 

El Blanco

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Looking at Journeycheck every morning, the scale of the daily farce seems to be declining, so things are going in the right direction. Again, hopefully the new timetable will go well & the impact from TPE’s poaching/attracting drivers can be contained
I'm afraid they are back today. Seems to be some issues on the usual routes in the East with broken down trains (according to Journey Checker).

Can I ask another procedural question? Over the last week or so on Journey Check, a lot of the reasons for short-formed trains were that there was a shortage of train crew. Examples of this were 3 car to 2 car and 6 car to 3 car. For 3 car to 2 car, would an Eastern driver not be trained on both 170's and 158's? Similarly if you are trained on 170's would this not include both 6 car and 3 car formations?

I could understand the reasoning if there was a short formed due unit substitution for a HST as the driver isn't trained. Should we take any notice of the reasons for short formed trains on Journey Check?
 

Highlandspring

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Can I ask another procedural question? Over the last week or so on Journey Check, a lot of the reasons for short-formed trains were that there was a shortage of train crew. Examples of this were 3 car to 2 car and 6 car to 3 car. For 3 car to 2 car, would an Eastern driver not be trained on both 170's and 158's? Similarly if you are trained on 170's would this not include both 6 car and 3 car formations?

I could understand the reasoning if there was a short formed due unit substitution for a HST as the driver isn't trained. Should we take any notice of the reasons for short formed trains on Journey Check?
Firstly I can’t think of a ScotRail depot that signs 170s but not 158s. Once crew are trained on the traction it doesn’t make any difference to them how many units are included in the train (other than for stuff like short platforms).

When an HST is not useable for whatever reason the remaining stock all has to shuffle up one place. For example if there is an Edinburgh - Inverness service that is booked for an HST but the conductor who is booked to work it from Perth onwards hasn’t yet been trained on HSTs. If there’s no way of manipulating conductors to get someone who can work the rolling stock then the trains need to be manipulated instead.

That means the 170 that might have been booked to do a Edinburgh - Arbroath service now does the Inverness that the HST was booked on, and another 170 would need to move onto the Arbroath service. However there’s unlikely to be another 170 available because they all have booked work or will be on planned maintenance so your choice is cancel the Arbroath service due to having no unit, cancel another service to provide a unit or try to steal a 158 from somewhere for example by splitting a booked pair. That means you get a cascade of “3v4” “2v4” short formations. You might end up making several alterations just to cover one wee part of a diagram (Perth to Inverness in this case). Ultimately if you can’t find a way of covering it then the service would be cancelled at Perth.

The reasons given on journey check are generally pretty accurate (they’re frequently audited and they come from staff who sit next to the relevant controllers in the ScotRail control centre) and go back to the root cause of the problem, albeit it’s not always easy for a casual observer to decipher why.
 
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El Blanco

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Firstly I can’t think of a ScotRail depot that signs 170s but not 158s. Once crew are trained on the traction it doesn’t make any difference to them how many units are included in the train (other than for stuff like short platforms).

When an HST useable for whatever reason the remaining stocck all has to shuffle up one place. For example if there is an Edinburgh - Inverness service that is booked for an HST but the conductor who is booked to work it from Perth onwards hasn’t yet been trained on HSTs. If there’s no way of manipulating conductors to get someone who can work then the rolling stock then the trains need to be manipulated instead.

That means the 170 that might have been booked to do a Edinburgh - Arbroath service now does the Inverness that the HST was booked on, and another 170 would need to move onto the Arbroath service. However there’s unlikely to be another 170 available because they all have booked work or will be on planned maintenance so your choice is cancel the Arbroath service due to having no unit, cancel another service to provide a unit or try to steal a 158 from somewhere for example by splitting a booked pair. That means you get a cascade of “3v4” “2v4” short formations. You might end up making several alterations just to cover one wee part of a diagram (Perth to Inverness in this case). Ultimately if you can’t find a way of covering it then the service would be cancelled at Perth.

The reasons given on journey check are generally pretty accurate (they’re frequently audited and they come from staff who sit next to the relevant controllers in the ScotRail control centre) and go back to the root cause of the problem, albeit it’s not always easy for a causual observer to decipher why.
Thanks for the comprehensive response!
 

alangla

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Normal (lack of) service has been resumed! Hope no-one fancies a bank holiday trip to North Berwick or tries to escape Cumbernauld or Falkirk today. Currently 66 cancellations and various part cancellations, pretty much all down to lack of crew. On the flip side, if anyone fancies helping out, a post on scot-rail suggests Abellio are looking for trainee drivers

Edit- here’s the ad - https://apply.abellio.com/vacancies/5018/trainee_train_drivers_scotland/
 

Class83

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Scotrail are being brave on twitter "From the start of our new timetable on 19th May, there'll be thousands of extra seats every day. In fact, we'll provide 115,000 more seats per day than we did in April 2015." already getting some flak over the fact that the most overcrowded lines are unlikely to benefit. On the 20th I guess it will be a 'post a picture of the most rammed train' and tag @scotrail competition.

Personally I feel they would be better letting the improvements happen gradually as new sets arrive, but save the bragging until they have a full HST fleet (even if some are classic) in place and the 170s have cascaded to relieve the commuter routes which are currently cancelled or short formed to provide units for the Intercity routes.
 

Deltic1961

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My station has 49% on time so it's just BS and another marketing stunt as far as I'm concerned.
 

EMU303

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Anyone know why the evening E-G departure times are changing from 00 and 30 to 15 and 45?
This means a longer wait at Croy for those travelling from Bishopbriggs and Lenzie to Edinburgh.
 

47271

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For me this somehow captures the essence of Scotrail under Abellio. We can ignore the usual suspects like Cortes and Smyth spouting off, but the smug quote from Scotrail at the end that ignores the point rounds off the piece perfectly.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news...worst-operators-for-delay-repay-compensation/

ScotRail has been criticised for its "Byzantine" compensation scheme for delayed passengers, after research revealed the process is among the UK's most complicated.

Consumer group Which? said its study of online claim forms shows customers seeking payouts for disruption face a "fragmented and confusing" system.

The operators with the most complicated compensation processes were found to be Great Anglia, London Northwestern, ScotRail, Transport for Wales and West Midlands Trains.

Each demands 24 separate details before a claim can be submitted.

Which? found that customers are often asked for "seemingly irrelevant details" which creates "unnecessary barriers" to receiving the money they are owed.

Which's managing director of public markets, Alex Hayman, said: "It's clear this fragmented and confusing compensation system leads to people losing out on a lot of money when they have already suffered enough from unacceptable levels of delays and cancellations.

"The technology exists to deliver compensation automatically, but the industry continues to drag its heels, while benefiting from a system that deters passengers from claiming the money they are owed."

The scheme by ScotRail - owned by Abellio - has been described as "cynical" and triggered renewed calls for services to be owned by the public.

TSSA union leader Manuel Cortes said: "On top of suffering the worst punctuality and reliability since Scotland's railways were privatised, now ScotRail passengers have to navigate a Byzantine claims process and provide 24 pieces of information in order to claim compensation for the delays.

"This is pure cynical greed. Abellio know that the harder it is for passengers to claim a refund the more likely they are to give up on the process."

Scottish Conservative transport spokesman Jamie Greene said: "Obviously some level of detail is required to safeguard against fraud but it's hard to see how 24 pieces of information could be necessary.

"If ScotRail made it more straightforward it would much improve goodwill between them and passengers, something which is sadly severely lacking at present."

Scottish Labour transport spokesman Colin Smyth said: "This is cynical stuff from ScotRail, given the thousands of passengers who will suffer from delayed, cancelled and overcrowded trains.

"Passengers shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get the compensation they are due for a shambolic service.

"Labour would bring our railways back into public hands so they work for passengers, not profits."

The firm's delay repay guarantee allows customers to be compensated when their journey is delayed by 30 minutes or more.

If anyone misses a connection because of that delay, they can claim for that expense too.

A ScotRail spokesman said: "We know how much of an inconvenience it is to customers when things don't go to plan, and it is only right that they are compensated when that happens.

"The delay repay system is easy to use and we regularly remind our customers to claim for compensation if their journey is delayed by 30 minutes or more."
 

cb a1

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Fascinating about how difficult the Scotrail Delay Repay is compared to others.
Whilst I generally have a very good service, if I am delayed I do claim back on my annual season ticket.
Having been commuting for 13 years by rail, I compared it to what was there before (I.e. no compensation) and have been delighted at how easy it is now.
That said, it was easier on Virgin West Coast (e-ticket did an automatic refund) and on Caledonian Sleeper.
 

Stopper

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Scotrail are being brave on twitter "From the start of our new timetable on 19th May, there'll be thousands of extra seats every day. In fact, we'll provide 115,000 more seats per day than we did in April 2015." already getting some flak over the fact that the most overcrowded lines are unlikely to benefit. On the 20th I guess it will be a 'post a picture of the most rammed train' and tag @scotrail competition.

Personally I feel they would be better letting the improvements happen gradually as new sets arrive, but save the bragging until they have a full HST fleet (even if some are classic) in place and the 170s have cascaded to relieve the commuter routes which are currently cancelled or short formed to provide units for the Intercity routes.

That’s just typical ScotRail for you though, and it’s why they bring most of their criticism on themselves.
 

Deltic1961

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The way they're promoting the change is as though all the issues of the past 6 month didn't happen

Either arrogance or delusion or a bit of both.

Bottom line is that as long as the people in charge are getting paid with little or no hassle (apart from the odd "warning") nothing will change.
 

alangla

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Bizarre. Whenever I get held up I usually fill in the claim on the app, take a photo of the ticket & get an email typically the following day saying it’s approved. Takes sub 5 mins & gives you something to do when you’re delayed.
 

mcmad

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Shortforms galore today on the West SDA route, very few of which were on the app for some reason despite showing the correct (short) number of coaches on the display boards at GLQ.
 

Class83

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Anyone know why the evening E-G departure times are changing from 00 and 30 to 15 and 45?
This means a longer wait at Croy for those travelling from Bishopbriggs and Lenzie to Edinburgh.
The first missing train (i.e. quarter hour when there isn't a departure from each end) moves back from 1945 to 2000 and the last train from 2330 to 2345. So it is arguably in general an improvement, though with a downside for some passengers.
 

Mingulay

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That’s just typical ScotRail for you though, and it’s why they bring most of their criticism on themselves.


Indeed. Alex H can’t have any toes left he has shot himself in the foot with both barrels that often. Best not raise expectations.

Cancelled Alloa train today so Dunblane Edinburgh service standing only at Stirling passengers left behind at Larbert.

There will be no feel good factor of new trains and apparent more capacity if they can’t deliver a consistent service. I genuinely think it’s beyond them as they seem fated. New trains we were told are more reliable so if short staffing continues in the new timetable pretty unforgivable to endure more cancellations
 

68000

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Went to York from Glasgow last week, the 7 car Queen St to Waverley 385 was great and then came back on Friday to another 7 car 385 service to Queen st. The LNER service down to York was 55 minutes late and got my delay repay decision quite quick. The 11:54 LNER from York on Friday was packed with loads standing
 

El Blanco

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The last day before the timetable change - when Scotrail said a lot of the previous issues would be sorted by - shows 75 cancellations and 14 short forms! Looking forward to a seamless service on Monday .....
 

Deltic1961

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It's more the fact they're constantly pushing the changes on social media. I guess whoever is telling them to post all the promises has a very short memory given the utter disaster that the December timetable change was.

Surely if they have a lack of resources and rolling stock they would introduce the new timetable on the quiet ..... but as we know Scotrail have a habit of shooting themselves in the foot again and again.
 
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