EU Referendum: The result and aftermath...

Howardh · 20 May 2019

Now that Nice Mr Farage has been victim of The Phantom Milkshake Thrower.

Aw, what a shame. let's hope he doesn't go anywhere near Compost Corner.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4523...at&fit=max&s=58c00b859f6f4a7e706afb42e84e132c
Photo of said Farage meeting said milkshake.

(For anyone too young or not British this refers to TISWAS where the studio audience (ie kids) and guests were constantly bombarded with "custard" pies, "milk", gunge, "jellies" etc etc. You get the picture).

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furnessvale · 20 May 2019

Howardh said:
Now that Nice Mr Farage has been victim of The Phantom Milkshake Thrower.

Aw, what a shame. let's hope he doesn't go anywhere near Compost Corner.

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/4523...at&fit=max&s=58c00b859f6f4a7e706afb42e84e132c
Photo of said Farage meeting said milkshake.

Actually, it is a shame. When people resort to violence rather than debate they go on a slippery slope. I presume there will be no objections to the similar applications of milkshakes to Change politicians?

AM9 · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
Actually, it is a shame. When people resort to violence rather than debate they go on a slippery slope. I presume there will be no objections to the similar applications of milkshakes to Change politicians?

But it is a long way to go down to the protest against Jo Cox.

Struner · 20 May 2019

R.I.P.

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
Actually, it is a shame. When people resort to violence rather than debate they go on a slippery slope. I presume there will be no objections to the similar applications of milkshakes to Change politicians?

Well let's look for an equivalent. Jo Cox was murdered. Having a milk shake thrown at you would seem not too bad.

Esker-pades · 20 May 2019

Is throwing some flimsy cardboard and liquid violence?

nidave · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
Actually, it is a shame. When people resort to violence rather than debate they go on a slippery slope. I presume there will be no objections to the similar applications of milkshakes to Change politicians?

Considering Farage said he would get a rifle i dont think he can complain

Nigel Farage would 'pick up a rifle' if Brexit is not delivered
It is not the first time the former Ukip leader has threatened civil disobedience over Brexit

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...al-ukip-leader-liberal-democrat-a7741331.html

squizzler · 20 May 2019

Look up the “battle of cable street” - that’s how people used to deal with these types and their hangers on back in the day. A milkshake’s not so bad.

thenorthern · 20 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
Is throwing some flimsy cardboard and liquid violence?

Not sure about violence as that is a broad definition but it is assault if its done with intent, spitting on someone with intent can be classed as common assault.

DynamicSpirit · 20 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
Is throwing some flimsy cardboard and liquid violence?

Clearly it's not an appropriate way for people to express their opinions. Personally I find Nigel Farage's views on most issues repugnant. And it seems to me that Nigel Farage is in part responsible for the increasing level of violence in UK politics - partly because he himself has often used exactly the kind of provocative language that tends incite violence, and partly because of the way he has stoked up xenophobia - which inevitable feeds racism and far-right activities (The pick up a rifle quote that @nidave has cited is a perfect example of unacceptable provocative language). So there's certainly some irony in Nigel Farage suffering from the kind of borderline violence that he himself has so often stirred up.

But at the same time, if we are not to be hypocritical, we must surely condemn all political violence - including throwing things at people. That applies no matter whether or not you agree with the victim. So I am somewhat concerned by the lack of condemnation of throwing the milkshake over Nigel Farage on this thread. Yes, compared to something like the murder of Jo Cox, it's very minor. But it's still a step in the same direction. And no-one should have to suffer violence or intimidation because of their opinions.

Esker-pades · 20 May 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
Clearly it's not an appropriate way for people to express their opinions. Personally I find Nigel Farage's views on most issues repugnant. And it seems to me that Nigel Farage is in part responsible for the increasing level of violence in UK politics - partly because he himself has often used exactly the kind of provocative language that tends incite violence, and partly because of the way he has stoked up xenophobia - which inevitable feeds racism and far-right activities (The pick up a rifle quote that @nidave has cited is a perfect example of unacceptable provocative language).

But at the same time, if we are not to be hypocritical, we must surely condemn all political violence - including throwing things at people. That applies no matter whether or not you agree with the victim. So I am somewhat concerned by the lack of condemnation of throwing the milkshake over Nigel Farage on this thread. Yes, compared to something like the murder of Jo Cox, it's very minor. But it's still a step in the same direction. And no-one should have to suffer violence or intimidation because of their opinions.

I should clarify: I don't agree with throwing milkshakes at people either.

My query was on the use of phrases such as "political violence".

furnessvale · 20 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
Is throwing some flimsy cardboard and liquid violence?

It most certainly caused criminal damage to his clothing. Hopefully milkshake in the eyes causes no permanent injury, maybe a sharp corner of the cardboard cup could have damaged an eye, but I am not a doctor.

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
It most certainly caused criminal damage to his clothing. Hopefully milkshake in the eyes causes no permanent injury, maybe a sharp corner of the cardboard cup could have damaged an eye, but I am not a doctor.

It certainly caused him less harm than came to Jo Cox. Not that I condone throwing milkshake at bigots. I do feel ridiculous even having to compare the two.

Mag_seven · 20 May 2019

fowler9 said:
It certainly caused him less harm than came to Jo Cox. Not that I condone throwing milkshake at bigots. I do feel ridiculous even having to compare the two.

Jo Cox was murdered on the same day that Farage unveiled that dreadful "Breaking Point" poster.

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

Mag_seven said:
Jo Cox was murdered on the same day that Farage unveiled that dreadful "Breaking Point" poster.

Him and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon were b*lls deep in what happened to Jo Cox. Apologies, I obviously can't prove that but it annoys me when people complain about that pair getting milkshake thrown at them.

Esker-pades · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
It most certainly caused criminal damage to his clothing. Hopefully milkshake in the eyes causes no permanent injury, maybe a sharp corner of the cardboard cup could have damaged an eye, but I am not a doctor.

Milkshake in the eye isn't damaging.
Those awful cardboard cups don't really have edges, certainly not ones sharp enough to do anything.

swj99 · 20 May 2019

furnessvale said:
.....When people resort to violence rather than debate they go on a slippery slope..........

It's true. And I find it quite worrying because as we've seen with what happened to Jo Cox, it only takes one nutter who's prepared to escalate things to a more extreme level. What if the next milkshake cup has acid in it ? Will as many people be condoning it then ?

takno · 20 May 2019

swj99 said:
It's true. And I find it quite worrying because as we've seen with what happened to Jo Cox, it only takes one nutter who's prepared to escalate things to a more extreme level. What if the next milkshake cup has acid in it ? Will as many people be condoning it then ?

There isn't a slippery slope from one to the other. There's a gigantic category change at the point where there's any meaningful risk of somebody getting hurt, and an even bigger one at the point where you plan to kill somebody. It's really quite twisted to equate the two.

Just to add that I'm not condoning throwing milkshake over anybody, however vile their behaviour and politics are. I'm simply saying that if I were to make a list of activities that merited any sympathy, or the attention of an overstretched police force for that matter, this event would not be on it

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

swj99 said:
It's true. And I find it quite worrying because as we've seen with what happened to Jo Cox, it only takes one nutter who's prepared to escalate things to a more extreme level. What if the next milkshake cup has acid in it ? Will as many people be condoning it then ?

Seriously? No one is condoning the "Milkshake" attack but only one side seems to have gone over the top so far and as always in this country it is the far right. The Nazis have already murdered someone and some of you people are worried what is next after Milkshake? Please pass me a napkin.

DynamicSpirit · 20 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
My query was on the use of phrases such as "political violence".

To me that's splitting hairs. Whatever phrase you use to describe it, throwing things over people should not form part of politics - although it sounds like you agree with that anyway.

But, since you ask... to my mind, one way to compare them would be... imagine if you were walking down the street, and someone randomly thumped you vs someone randomly threw a milkshake over you. What impact would those have on you? I would suggest, that if you're a typical person, they would have much the same emotional impact on you: Both would equally leave most people feeling humiliated, and unsafe, and nervous about walking down that same street in the future. Next to that, the differences look more minor (a random thump might leave you bruised and in some physical pain for a few days, whereas a milkshake would leave you urgently needing to get your clothes washed - but those are arguably less important in the long run than the emotional impact of both actions). From that point of view, calling throwing a milkshake over someone 'political violence' seems justified to me.

fowler9 · 20 May 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
To me that's splitting hairs. Whatever phrase you use to describe it, throwing things over people should not form part of politics - although it sounds like you agree with that anyway.

But, since you ask... to my mind, one way to compare them would be... imagine if you were walking down the street, and someone randomly thumped you vs someone randomly threw a milkshake over you. What impact would those have on you? I would suggest, that if you're a typical person, they would have much the same emotional impact on you: Both would equally leave most people feeling humiliated, and unsafe, and nervous about walking down that same street in the future. Next to that, the differences look more minor (a random thump might leave you bruised and in some physical pain for a few days, whereas a milkshake would leave you urgently needing to get your clothes washed - but those are arguably less important in the long run than the emotional impact of both actions). From that point of view, calling throwing a milkshake over someone 'political violence' seems justified to me.

So which side are worse then? The right wingers who have murdered someone or the left wingers who have thrown milkshake over someone? That really isn't splitting hairs is it?

Esker-pades · 20 May 2019

DynamicSpirit said:
To me that's splitting hairs. Whatever phrase you use to describe it, throwing things over people should not form part of politics - although it sounds like you agree with that anyway.

But, since you ask... to my mind, one way to compare them would be... imagine if you were walking down the street, and someone randomly thumped you vs someone randomly threw a milkshake over you. What impact would those have on you? I would suggest, that if you're a typical person, they would have much the same emotional impact on you: Both would equally leave most people feeling humiliated, and unsafe, and nervous about walking down that same street in the future. Next to that, the differences look more minor (a random thump might leave you bruised and in some physical pain for a few days, whereas a milkshake would leave you urgently needing to get your clothes washed - but those are arguably less important in the long run than the emotional impact of both actions). From that point of view, calling throwing a milkshake over someone 'political violence' seems justified to me.

It isn't random though. It is a form of protest against their very public views.

I haven't been punched or had a milkshake thrown at me for my views, so I cannot comment on how such an event would make me feel.

MidlandsChap · 20 May 2019

fowler9 said:
Seriously? No one is condoning the "Milkshake" attack but only one side seems to have gone over the top so far and as always in this country it is the far right. The Nazis have already murdered someone and some of you people are worried what is next after Milkshake? Please pass me a napkin.

The murderer of Jo Cox was one deranged far right extremest going by the name Thomas Mair. The crime was apalling, and its even more sickening to think her little kids are growing up without a parent. I followed the case quite closely. Mr Mairs actions over many years seemed to have a common theme of right wing anger, from what I read and heard it started off fairly mundanely, such as writing letters with his opinions, but grew ever more extreme up until the murder took place.

It is however extremely naive of people to think that only those of right wing persuasion are capable of this, and that left wingers are somehow incapable of such intent. So for me, I dont care if they are on the left of right. Anybody that commits an act of terrorism be it milkshake throwing or otherwise, should be made fully aware just how unacceptable their actions are right there.

Esker-pades · 20 May 2019

MidlandsChap said:
The murderer of Jo Cox was one deranged far right extremest going by the name Thomas Mair. The crime was apalling, and its even more sickening to think her little kids are growing up without a parent. I followed the case quite closely. Mr Mairs actions over many years seemed to have a common theme of right wing anger, from what I read and heard it started off fairly mundanely, such as writing letters with his opinions, but grew ever more extreme up until the murder took place.

It is however extremely naive of people to think that only those of right wing persuasion are capable of this, and that left wingers are somehow incapable of such intent. So for me, I dont care if they are on the left of right. Anybody that commits an act of terrorism be it milkshake throwing or otherwise, should be made fully aware just how unacceptable their actions are right there.

I agree with the point entirely, until it comes to the bit I have highlighted.

To me, that implies that milkshake throwing is an act of terrorism. That is a serious over-reaction.

takno · 20 May 2019

MidlandsChap said:
The murderer of Jo Cox was one deranged far right extremest going by the name Thomas Mair. The crime was apalling, and its even more sickening to think her little kids are growing up without a parent. I followed the case quite closely. Mr Mairs actions over many years seemed to have a common theme of right wing anger, from what I read and heard it started off fairly mundanely, such as writing letters with his opinions, but grew ever more extreme up until the murder took place.

It is however extremely naive of people to think that only those of right wing persuasion are capable of this, and that left wingers are somehow incapable of such intent. So for me, I dont care if they are on the left of right. Anybody that commits an act of terrorism be it milkshake throwing or otherwise, should be made fully aware just how unacceptable their actions are right there.

Nobody is suggesting that only people on the right are capable of becoming political murderers, it's just that they are the side being whipped into a frenzy with a constant stream of lies and a personalized narrative of betrayal. It's not the sad-act with the gun you can stop, it's the leaders who stoke up the hatred, normalise the extreme violence by pretending it's like milkshake, point out a their choice of victim, and then act like nothing happened with awful lines like "without a shot being fired"

milkshake throwing, like our rich and lengthy tradition of egg-throwing is not terrorism and it is highly unlikely to lead onto anything worse. Nobody is going to start "taking things further", particularly as normal people would not actually ever think of murder as being further down any kind of path that milkshake is even on. There is no association, nothing in common, no relation, no slippery slope, they are not even opposites - they're just completely different things. Farage is just playing more of his stupid games and further normalising actual extreme behaviour by pretending that something non-extreme is equivalent

Giugiaro · 21 May 2019

MidlandsChap said:
It is however extremely naive of people to think that only those of right wing persuasion are capable of this, and that left wingers are somehow incapable of such intent.

VIVA LA REVOLUCIÓN!

zuriblue · 21 May 2019

FelixtheCat said:
I agree with the point entirely, until it comes to the bit I have highlighted.

To me, that implies that milkshake throwing is an act of terrorism. That is a serious over-reaction.

It does appear to be the talking point de jour. It reinforces what is known as Olbermann’s Dictum that right wingers live in a perpetual state of victimhood.

squizzler · 21 May 2019

It's so funny reading people equating throwing milkshakes with domestic terrorism. For starters there was no plot, the chap was apparently just walking along the street, drink in hand, when a target of opportunity presented itself.

Actually the reason that Britain has had fewer demagogues in modern times than other countries is because we have learnt from a long and bloody history to take a robust line with these sorts of people, often involving public humiliation such as this. The fact we have apparently been conditioned to be so mealy mouthed about this sort of thing bodes ill for our democracy. We risk becoming a nation of sheeple.

At the risk of invoking Godwin's Law, if you had been in a Munich beerkellar in the early thirties and a funny chap with a moustache had been holding court and ranting about being stabbed in the back during the great war and how he would make Germany great again, would you castigate anyone who poured his beer on the fellow's head?

404250 · 21 May 2019

You're not risking invoking it, you're doing it.

AM9 · 21 May 2019

So what, - it's a fair similie.

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