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Northern Dec 2019 Timetable Bid

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Glenn1969

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Obviously Southport punters would rather have a Picc train than one to Brighouse and Leeds. I can't say I blame them really

A post on another thread hinted that Northern might have abandoned Flex. Anyone know if that's true or if it has just been deferred beyond December?
 
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Greybeard33

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So diesel all the way from Bolton to Alderley Edge, just because some folk from Southport want to go to Oxford Road or Piccadilly. And once again the Southport service is split between Piccadilly and Victoria.
Now that Southport users have got their way over direct services to Piccadilly, I wonder if they are going to start complaining about the loss of the direct services to the Calder Valley they have enjoyed for the last year? <D

The Leeds and Blackburn services, which are being cut back from Southport to Wigan, are mostly going to terminate at Wallgate not North Western. Northern is concentrating Atherton and Westhoughton line services on Wallgate. The reason for using North Western was to enable future EMU operation of the services via Westhoughton, while avoiding the costly challenge of electrifying under the Wallgate bridge.

It would appear that Northern has given up on Bolton - Wigan electrification for the remainder of the franchise.
 

Grannyjoans

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I didn't know it was 70, but I bet it barely reaches that, particularly on a stopper.

They barely reach it between most of the other stations but between Burscough and Meols Cop they run at 70mph for quite a while
 

Glenn1969

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I guess Southport's need for a Picc service was considered greater than Rochdale's need for a Southport service or indeed Rochdale's need for a Picc service

I just hope the new timetable is a success and that in future years they can build on it and deliver the full TSR
 

scrapy

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Using North Western for Wigan terminators has the benefit of not needing a shunt move, blocking the line and potentially needing more units.

However Northern recently proposed self dispatch from North Western due to the fees Virgin are charging only to regularly dispatch trains late due to short staffing and prioritising their own trains. This has been knocked back by Network Rail for now so I can understand they favour using Wallgate and it's better from a revenue collection point of view due to barriers.
 

Bletchleyite

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Now that Southport users have got their way over direct services to Piccadilly, I wonder if they are going to start complaining about the loss of the direct services to the Calder Valley they have enjoyed for the last year? <D

I very much doubt it. All they wanted back was the service pattern they enjoyed for over 20 years and had no issues with. (The terminus beyond Picc was never that important - pre 1998 it was Chester via Altrincham anyway).

Apart from Ringway Aerodrome (now using that deliberately :D ) nobody ever really cared about cross-Manchester local services. The joining up of services across Manchester has long just been for operational convenience. Manchester (if they're not going to Wigan) is where 99%+ of passengers from Southport are going, not Leeds.
 

Roose

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The whole point of the 769 Flex or any bi-mode is to run at speed on the main trunk of the route on OHLE, and switch to diesel on the slower, less taxing branch-line bit. Southport is an absolute textbook example, as would be Kirkby if it ran via Bolton, as would be Barrow or Windermere.
But the latter two have hills on the route...

A return to banking from Ulverston to Lindal-in-Furness?

;)
 

Grannyjoans

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Acceleration is important on the Southport line due to the amount of stops... We need something quicker than than the current 150s, not slower.
 

Grannyjoans

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But the latter two have hills on the route...

A return to banking from Ulverston to Lindal-in-Furness?

A job for a DRS 37... gives them something to do now that they don't do hardly anything any more.
 

Glenn1969

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I hope also that the fact that Northwich Line stations are getting their hourly Sunday service in December means Norther NW depots have sorted their staffing issues out

Yorkshire doesn't have these issues so I am not surprised there are more improvements ovee here
 

Grannyjoans

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I hope also that the fact that Northwich Line stations are getting their hourly Sunday service in December means Norther NW depots have sorted their staffing issues out

Yorkshire doesn't have these issues so I am not surprised there are more improvements ovee here

Sundays are part of the working week in the East. So no more staffing issues than a normal weekday.

On the West the Sundays are overtime.
It might have improved recently as the pay for working a Sunday has gone up a lot.
 

agbrs_Jack

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0749 Macclesfield-Manchester to start back from Stoke
At last a half decent peak service from Congleton! (It also lists an off peak Mon-Fri + Sat Macc-Stoke, not sure what that could be.)

I notice the 15 each way Sunday services for the Stoke line are in the Document (although they've been in the previous 2 so doesn't really mean much), hopefully we might see some hourly Sunday services in December.
 

Paul Duck

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Looking though applications it already looks like Network Rail don't fancy the extra Whitby - Middlesbrough early morning service as signal boxes will have to open earlier. Northern have specified it so it's going to have to go ahead at some point.
Interesting to see ARN have said Middlesbrough to Newcastle Via Stillington branch. Wonder what the study that Northern had to produce into running via the Stillington branch has thrown up and the remedies to getting the line up the passenger running standards. Going to go out on a whim here and say I don't think the Middlesbrough - Newcastle connect services will go Via Stillington. Just can't see them getting a path at Ferryhill once they get there. Especially when LNER start running more services to Newcastle and First groups London-Edinburgh services. With Northern applying to stop at CLS be interesting to see if TPE reduce calls there.
 

transmanche

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Interesting to see ARN have said Middlesbrough to Newcastle Via Stillington branch. Wonder what the study that Northern had to produce into running via the Stillington branch has thrown up and the remedies to getting the line up the passenger running standards.
I thought it was always the plan that the Middlesbrough-Carlisle via Newcastle Connect service would be routed via the Stillington branch?

With Northern applying to stop at CLS be interesting to see if TPE reduce calls there.
That would make sense.
 

Paul Duck

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Aye original plan is to go through stillington branch. We will find out in next few months I suppose which way it's going to go.
 

geoffk

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Aye original plan is to go through stillington branch. We will find out in next few months I suppose which way it's going to go.
Does any traffic use the Stillington branch? I looked at RTT and see there were two ecs workings early this morning, both Newcastle to Middlesbrough, which went via Darlington.
 

geoffk

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Acceleration is important on the Southport line due to the amount of stops... We need something quicker than than the current 150s, not slower.
170s were promised but they don't really cope well with frequent stops.
 

Paul Duck

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No current passenger trains run on the Stillington branch. I live behind Norton West Signal box at the start of the Stillington branch and hear a maximum of 2 trains a day. Very lightly used piece of track.
 

yorkie

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Can we please stick to the Northern December 2019 timetable bid?

To discuss electrification projects, please use the infrastructure section of the forum.
To discuss traction & rolling stock itself (not the allocations and timetabling), please use the traction & rolling stock section.
Any ideas need to go in the speculative section.

Thanks :)
 

si404

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Bringing it back to the White Rose side of the Pennines - are these new joined services a good idea after Thameslink last May and LNWR this May struggling with the implementation of similar daisy-chaining services together?
 

Iskra

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Bringing it back to the White Rose side of the Pennines - are these new joined services a good idea after Thameslink last May and LNWR this May struggling with the implementation of similar daisy-chaining services together?

History suggests it isn’t a good idea- see Central Trains. Also, look at other long distance regional services that pass through many pinch points, such as TP services or EMT’s Liverpool-Norwich. But, they sound great on paper and passengers like the sound of them.
 

si404

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I hope you meant the extra semi-fast service.
which would be quite a mistake in reporting what has been requested - the OP got it right - a doubling of Sunday service to hourly, rather than the much-delayed second hourly train during the week.
 

Mogster

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Now that Southport users have got their way over direct services to Piccadilly, I wonder if they are going to start complaining about the loss of the direct services to the Calder Valley they have enjoyed for the last year? <D

The Leeds and Blackburn services, which are being cut back from Southport to Wigan, are mostly going to terminate at Wallgate not North Western. Northern is concentrating Atherton and Westhoughton line services on Wallgate. The reason for using North Western was to enable future EMU operation of the services via Westhoughton, while avoiding the costly challenge of electrifying under the Wallgate bridge.

It would appear that Northern has given up on Bolton - Wigan electrification for the remainder of the franchise.

There’s already a morning and evening peak Southport - Alderley Edge. It was reinstated at the last but one timetable change iirc. So Southport commuters aren't completely cut off from Castlefield currently.
 

geoffk

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At last a half decent peak service from Congleton! (It also lists an off peak Mon-Fri + Sat Macc-Stoke, not sure what that could be.)

I notice the 15 each way Sunday services for the Stoke line are in the Document (although they've been in the previous 2 so doesn't really mean much), hopefully we might see some hourly Sunday services in December.
There are still odd trains during the day on the Stoke line which don't call at Stockport. I asked a driver and he didn't know why.
 

vlad

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There are still odd trains during the day on the Stoke line which don't call at Stockport. I asked a driver and he didn't know why.

Either: to confuse people.
Or: to lay to rest once and for all the myth that all trains crossing Stockport Viaduct have to stop at Edgeley station.

(Unless you have a better idea. :))
 

Kite159

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Either: to confuse people.
Or: to lay to rest once and for all the myth that all trains crossing Stockport Viaduct have to stop at Edgeley station.

(Unless you have a better idea. :))

Isn't it due to clashes with freight paths?
 

Deerfold

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This timetable appears to be a stepping stone towards full implementation of TSR3 further on in the franchise and restores the cross-Leeds service from Halifax and Bradford the withdrawal of which was widely decried in December 2018. However for a year the new service only has contingent rights to assess its effect on performance which IMHO is fair enough. The new service is to replace the Huddersfield train at New Pudsey and Bramley. It will be interesting to see timetabling Bradford to Halifax and vv to see how much of a gap exists between the two trains

Hopefully it'll get rid of the current ridiculous situation with a 4 to 5 trains an hour Halifax to Bradford but a 27 minute gap nearly every hour.
 
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