New trains for East Midlands Franchise

lammergeier · 7 Aug 2019

InTheEastMids said:
May also be a reference to the proposed Syston-Wigston Capacity Scheme which was due to happen in CP6, involving 4-tracking, new platforms at Leicester and grade separated junction at Wigston

I'm not sure if this is definitely going ahead? Whereas I understand the Northbound linespeed improvements will be going ahead, and hopefully soon.

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londonmidland · 7 Aug 2019

lammergeier said:
If using platform 3 Southbound it is 40mph throughout for both passenger and freight so significantly better than the previous 15mph dawdle. Also worth pointing out that the Southbound departures from platforms 1 and 4 have also seen modest linespeed increases (up to 25mph) although this does mean the XC services clear the station and associated junctions quicker. Not sure what the exact plan is for Northbound, hopefully a similar 40mph arrival for platform 2.

On the approach to Leicester platform 3 there is a line-side speed sign displaying 40 on top with a line in the middle and 25 at the bottom, or something like that.

Freight certainly does not pass through or accelerate to 40mph through Leicester platform 3, it idles at 25mph whilst passing through.

Mariner16 · 7 Aug 2019

TT-ONR-NRN said:
Until the new trains actually arrive there are interim posters that have been displayed.

View attachment 66815 View attachment 66816

Caterer talking to the guard on 156410 today they were saying that East Midlands Railway had plans to put 153s in the middle of 156s a la Scotrail plans because the 170s will not arrive for a while. I think that’ll look disgustingly messy. Especially as 153s are plug door and 156s are pocket sliding door.

Also according to the guard, LNER carriages will be coming to replace East Midlands Trains ones.

The 158 exterior with rebrand

lammergeier · 7 Aug 2019

londonmidland said:
On the approach to Leicester platform 3 there is a line-side speed sign displaying 40 on top with a line in the middle and 25 at the bottom, or something like that.

Freight certainly does not pass through or accelerate to 40mph through Leicester platform 3, it idles at 25mph whilst passing through.

Happy to stand corrected.

edwin_m · 8 Aug 2019

londonmidland said:
On the approach to Leicester platform 3 there is a line-side speed sign displaying 40 on top with a line in the middle and 25 at the bottom, or something like that.

Freight certainly does not pass through or accelerate to 40mph through Leicester platform 3, it idles at 25mph whilst passing through.

That's a differential speed restriction and (with a few rather esoteric exceptions) means passenger trains can do 40mph but freight has to do 25.

DogsOnTrains · 8 Aug 2019

Has a timescale been announced for receiving the new bimodes? I wonder what the legal/political implications of running non compliant stock are

krus_aragon · 8 Aug 2019

DogsOnTrains said:
Has a timescale been announced for receiving the new bimodes? I wonder what the legal/political implications of running non compliant stock are

The legal implications are a need for a derogation, courtesy of the Transport Secretary. Given that they'll have signed off on the new franchise, they shouldn't be caught off-guard.

kevjs · 9 Aug 2019

krus_aragon said:
The legal implications are a need for a derogation, courtesy of the Transport Secretary. Given that they'll have signed off on the new franchise, they shouldn't be caught off-guard.

Who was Transport Secretary at the time? Knowing his level of competence he's arranged the derogation period to run from 2022....

Mitchell Hurd · 9 Aug 2019

I understand that LNER carriages will come to replace the EMT ones (so I guess Mark 4's).

Assuming they are Mark 4's, that will mean the HST power cars will need to have their 2,250hp engines uprated. In a rail magazine or online, I think MAN offered to update the Paxman VP185 engines from 2,250 to 2,400hp to work with Mark 4 coaches.

Also, 5 Class 170's from Scotrail won't be enough to provide a more modern regional fleet. I'm guessing more 170's from West Midlands Railway will happen when they become available.

Aictos · 9 Aug 2019

Mitchell Hurd said:
I understand that LNER carriages will come to replace the EMT ones (so I guess Mark 4's).

Assuming they are Mark 4's, that will mean the HST power cars will need to have their 2,250hp engines uprated. In a rail magazine or online, I think MAN offered to update the Paxman VP185 engines from 2,250 to 2,400hp to work with Mark 4 coaches.

Firstly we shouldn't assume which carriages they will be as I'm sure you're aware of what Assume really means...

Secondly, the HST pwer cars will need more work then simply having their engines uprated as they currently run 3-phase 415/240 V (Mark 3) power supply for the Mk3s so would they not need this to be upgraded?

Thirdly, the most important issue that you seem to have overlooked is the fact that Mk4s need to be gauge cleared for the MML, the MK3s however don't need this as they already run over the route.

Mitchell Hurd said:
I understand that LNER carriages will come to replace the EMT ones (so I guess Mark 4's).

Also, 5 Class 170's from Scotrail won't be enough to provide a more modern regional fleet. I'm guessing more 170's from West Midlands Railway will happen when they become available.

Again, nobody knows where these extra 170s are coming from but the West Midlands has been mentioned as one possible area.

edwin_m · 9 Aug 2019

Mitchell Hurd said:
I understand that LNER carriages will come to replace the EMT ones (so I guess Mark 4's).

Assuming they are Mark 4's, that will mean the HST power cars will need to have their 2,250hp engines uprated. In a rail magazine or online, I think MAN offered to update the Paxman VP185 engines from 2,250 to 2,400hp to work with Mark 4 coaches.

LNER coaches could refer to some from their HSTs, which are to be replaced soon by Azumas and may be closer to accessibilty compliance than the EMT ones.

I would guess uprating the engines is more trouble than it's worth. The cooling on HSTs has always been a bit marginal and more power means more heat to get rid of. If someone is really looking at running Mk4s with HST power cars and the extra weight is really too much to sustain timings, then just leave out one first class coach.

Roast Veg · 9 Aug 2019

From readang an old PRM spreadsheet some time ago, the ECML MK3s are indeed closer to meeting compliance than the MML ones, but then so are the GWR ones and they're available now.

EE Andy b1 · 9 Aug 2019

Well surely HSTs with Mk3s makes scense as they already use these, no training required and there are now plenty available.
It's going to be 2-3 years before new 800s are ready, that was why i suggested what i did in post #1454.

swt_passenger · 9 Aug 2019

krus_aragon said:
The legal implications are a need for a derogation, courtesy of the Transport Secretary. Given that they'll have signed off on the new franchise, they shouldn't be caught off-guard.

AIUI the Transport Secretary can only grant dispensations, and derogations are a matter for the European Commision.
I believe many of the recent posts (across the forums) that mention the possibility of DfT derogations are not strictly accurate.

krus_aragon · 9 Aug 2019

swt_passenger said:
AIUI the Transport Secretary can only grant dispensations, and derogations are a matter for the European Commision.
I believe many of the recent posts (across the forums) that mention the possibility of DfT derogations are not strictly accurate.

Granted, a dispensation would be the appropriate term in this instance. (Though the SoS is still involved in derogations, as they have to notify the EU Comission of any derogations made by the "Competent Authority" , which happens to be Secretary of State. See https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2011/3066/regulation/14/made)

JaJaWa · 11 Aug 2019

Class 222 rebranded to EMR INTERCITY. Source: https://twitter.com/johntilluk/status/1160589392035098627?s=21

Chris125 · 11 Aug 2019

Roast Veg said:
From readang an old PRM spreadsheet some time ago, the ECML MK3s are indeed closer to meeting compliance than the MML ones, but then so are the GWR ones and they're available now.

Don't the GWR mk3s lack CET? (toilet tanks)

Roast Veg · 11 Aug 2019

I don't believe any of them have CETs other than those also fitted with automatic doors, but I could be wrong.

cnjb8 · 11 Aug 2019

Roast Veg said:
I don't believe any of them have CETs other than those also fitted with automatic doors, but I could be wrong.

I think on Wikipedia it says they will be fitted to the Castle sets. I will be corrected if needs be.
Do you think we will see a EMR livered train on the launch day (maybe even before)?

EE Andy b1 · 11 Aug 2019

Roast Veg said:
I don't believe any of them have CETs other than those also fitted with automatic doors, but I could be wrong.

Your not wrong. Just Castle, 7Cities & refurbished XC sets are fully compliant, but taking forever to do.

NewSt · 12 Aug 2019

cnjb8 said:
Do you think we will see a EMR livered train on the launch day (maybe even before)?

According to this article: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....what-midland-mainline-trains-soon-3004134.amp , the rebranding of trains will commence in 2020 and be complete by 2022.

supervc-10 · 12 Aug 2019

Don't the Chiltern Mk.3s have CETs, along with all the other PRM mods?

Goldfish62 · 12 Aug 2019

supervc-10 said:
Don't the Chiltern Mk.3s have CETs, along with all the other PRM mods?

They don't have passenger information displays. At least they didn't when I last travelled on a set in February.

LowLevel · 12 Aug 2019

NewSt said:
According to this article: https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....what-midland-mainline-trains-soon-3004134.amp , the rebranding of trains will commence in 2020 and be complete by 2022.

There will be a 222 on launch day.

samuelmorris · 12 Aug 2019

Are the 360s being reliveried as part of their refit do we think? It'll be amusing to see them carrying the base of the livery from three, sort of four TOCs ago if they don't...

dosxuk · 12 Aug 2019

samuelmorris said:
Are the 360s being reliveried as part of their refit do we think? It'll be amusing to see them carrying the base of the livery from three, sort of four TOCs ago if they don't...

Well EMT launched with some of the 158's showing the liveries of three or four TOCs at once, so the precedent is there!

Doomotron · 12 Aug 2019

samuelmorris said:
Are the 360s being reliveried as part of their refit do we think? It'll be amusing to see them carrying the base of the livery from three, sort of four TOCs ago if they don't...

I thought the 360s weren't even confirmed...

LowLevel · 12 Aug 2019

Doomotron said:
I thought the 360s weren't even confirmed...

They've been confirmed for a couple of months, internally at least

londonmidland · 12 Aug 2019

Doomotron said:
I thought the 360s weren't even confirmed...

The 360’s are very much so confirmed. To be used on the St. Pancras - Corby services.

NewSt · 12 Aug 2019

LowLevel said:
There will be a 222 on launch day.

That’s good to hear. I’ll keep an eye out for it.

New trains for East Midlands Franchise

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