Kite159
Veteran Member
Either they're getting a discount from Bombardier,
Or maybe Bombardier are throwing in an extra 710 for free as compensation for the delays. It's happened in the past with the 334s in Scotland
Either they're getting a discount from Bombardier,
In other thoughts, it occurs to me that the current journey, being 9 minutes, could actually support a 3tph service if the 710s could go just a smidge faster than the 315s (6 journeys = 54 minutes but turnarounds would be 2 minutes flat which is a bit tight. If you could do it in 8, turnarounds would be 4 minutes). Wonder if there's any possibility of that if the line gets busier after Crossrail opens.
An excellent idea - but for higher speeds (would 60 mph be sufficient?) the track would need upgrading. If this could be funded then it would be attractive to passengers!
Also, what the line needs are some stations where it passes below roads. But this might prevent the service frequency from being increased. Perhaps the greater acceleration of the new trains would help here too.
Also, what the line needs are some stations where it passes below roads. But this might prevent the service frequency from being increased. Perhaps the greater acceleration of the new trains would help here too.
Yep, 30mph the whole way. Improved acceleration over the 315 will make minimal difference at such low top speeds. For a 4 minute turn around you would need 2 drivers due to minimum turnaround times, one would have to drive each way, but that still doesn't leave a lot of time to use the toilet.Isn't the branch restricted to 30 mph? As for stations at the overbridges, there might be problems re. the o/head, it's grounded under the bridges. (Difficult to lower the roads so the wires are continuous but without electricity with neutral sections either side of each bridge. The power supply is continuous but via insulated cables rather than live o/heads.) If stations were to be provided, trains might stall under the bridges.
Adding a passing loop or double track platforms would need the whole route to be signalled. Currently as there's only ever one train allowed on it there's only one signal to worry about.If you were to build a new station, surely building a new station with a passing loop or two platforms would be the solution to all the service frequency issues you'd ever imagine.
I wonder if the passenger volume actually will go up after Crossrail. It seems like it might be an attractive route choice for customers on c2c trains aiming further west than the city.
The are also multiple foot crossings with no added safety features to considerYep, 30mph the whole way. Improved acceleration over the 315 will make minimal difference at such low top speeds. For a 4 minute turn around you would need 2 drivers due to minimum turnaround times, one would have to drive each way, but that still doesn't leave a lot of time to use the toilet.
In other thoughts, it occurs to me that the current journey, being 9 minutes, could actually support a 3tph service if the 710s could go just a smidge faster than the 315s (6 journeys = 54 minutes but turnarounds would be 2 minutes flat which is a bit tight. If you could do it in 8, turnarounds would be 4 minutes). Wonder if there's any possibility of that if the line gets busier after Crossrail opens.
I wonder if the passenger volume actually will go up after Crossrail. It seems like it might be an attractive route choice for customers on c2c trains aiming further west than the city.
I doubt TFL will keep a single 710 with a different seating layout to the rest unless they wanted to dedicate one unit to this line.The new train will be very similar in appearance to the new trains currently operating on the Barking to Gospel Oak line, although seating inside will be a mix of lengthwise and front and rear facing seating.
As for an on topic matter, quoted from Romford Recorder
I doubt TFL will keep a single 710 with a different seating layout to the rest unless they wanted to dedicate one unit to this line.
Surely that isn't correct UNLESS the West Anglia 710s also have mixed seating, and wasn't that ruled out?
Surely that isn't correct UNLESS the West Anglia 710s also have mixed seating, and wasn't that ruled out?
Will TfL order more as they've been awarded £80m money today and it specifically mentions the east London Line? Sorry don't have link to hand
Will TfL order more as they've been awarded £80m money today and it specifically mentions the east London Line? Sorry don't have link to hand
The present 710 orders (especially the 6 x 5 car 710s for the NLL) already allow for transferring 8 x 378s to the ELL for the additional services there to get up to 20 tph. It’s done this way because ELL stock must have the end doors in the cabs.There's going to have to be more 710s from the options already in place, I would have thought - presumably to cascade more 378s from the NLL/WLL across to the ELL (as IIRC the 710s aren't approved for the ELL?). The 378s freed up when the Watford DC lines go 710 - IIRC - will allow a frequency uptick (again!) on the NLL/WLL to 10tph from the current 8tph (so Richmond and Clapham Jct get 5tph each), or at least that's what I recall was meant to happen...
Sounds like the door close option is currently software disabled. It will auto close after a while any way so no real reason to have it in use.I was able to take a ride on a 710 on the GOBLIN last week. Those doors are very strange. Very motor-y. Remind me of the mechanism on Voyagers, but without the tilting door.
Who designed the door controls, because they make no sense.
Doors enabled - door open button lights green. So far, so normal.
Door close button lights red when you press it... and does nothing.
When doors are closing the door open buttons flash red. What?
Sounds like the door close option is currently software disabled. It will auto close after a while any way so no real reason to have it in use.
The flashing red (something not necessarily door buttons) accompanying closing doors will become much more common on new stock, having the open button flash red is actually quite clever as it should discourage people from trying to exit while the doors are closing and shows that the open function is disabled more obviously than just the green LEDs no longer showing.
it means 4tph to 6tph on Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction services through Canada Water (so in other words increasing from 16tph to 20tph through the Thames Tunnel). Also sees power upgrades, stabling upgrades, signalling upgrades and the Surrey Canal Road station fitted out (although apparently named New Bermondsey now!)
The existing 710 order includes enough stock to allow cascades of 378s to cover 20tph, more than that would need more 710 option to be taken up.Part of the Housing Investment Fund awards (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/600-million-boost-for-housing). Connected to an enormous housing/etc development at Canada Water and also around Bermondsey/Surrey Quays (https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/20...-and-a-new-station-for-the-london-overground/), it means 4tph to 6tph on Crystal Palace and Clapham Junction services through Canada Water (so in other words increasing from 16tph to 20tph through the Thames Tunnel). Also sees power upgrades, stabling upgrades, signalling upgrades and the Surrey Canal Road station fitted out (although apparently named New Bermondsey now!).
There's going to have to be more 710s from the options already in place, I would have thought - presumably to cascade more 378s from the NLL/WLL across to the ELL (as IIRC the 710s aren't approved for the ELL?). The 378s freed up when the Watford DC lines go 710 - IIRC - will allow a frequency uptick (again!) on the NLL/WLL to 10tph from the current 8tph (so Richmond and Clapham Jct get 5tph each), or at least that's what I recall was meant to happen. The lines certainly need it.
Quite some change from shabby 313s running every 20 minutes through grotty, unsupervised stations on the NLL to the line bursting at the seams now...
I doubt TFL will keep a single 710 with a different seating layout to the rest unless they wanted to dedicate one unit to this line.
There have been a few incidents over the last decade that highlight the need to make it more obvious than the current "passive" electrostar/desiro default of no indication to a more "active" one highlighting than the open button is disabled at that point in time.Electrostars and Desiros flash the door close button when the doors are closing (Desiros only when the final close is occurring). The door open buttons are unlit when the doors are open or finally closing. These all make perfect sense as the door open function is disabled.
The Civity units have a red light above the door that flashes when the door is closing, similar to the Paris metro units.
There have been a few incidents over the last decade that highlight the need to make it more obvious than the current "passive" electrostar/desiro default of no indication to a more "active" one highlighting than the open button is disabled at that point in time.
People are still used to some older stock with pneumatic door operation that had no LEDs at all and would sometimes still respond when doors were closing...People honestly can't make the connection of "button not lit=button does nothing"? And that's not even getting into the issues with having a button able to light up red or green.
And that is a big part of it...All common sense tends to go out of the window the moment people step foot into stations.
I have certainly come across people who really don't get the whole concept of icons or colours having consistent meanings. Just because a green traffic light means go they don't see that it follows that the use of the colour elsewhere implies the same meaning.People honestly can't make the connection of "button not lit=button does nothing"? And that's not even getting into the issues with having a button able to light up red or green.