Class 710 LO

[87015]

Still not around today either. Perhaps the GOBLIN broke it

Only seven of the eight DC circuits booked out, eighth not planned in.

 

[ijmad]

Only seven of the eight DC circuits booked out, eighth not planned in.

Indeed, we were just making assumptions in the thread that the final 710 being introduced on the GOBLIN would cascade the remaining 378 direct to the DC.

 

[swt_passenger]

Indeed, we were just making assumptions in the thread that the final 710 being introduced on the GOBLIN would cascade the remaining 378 direct to the DC.

The 8th unit is booked (per RTT) from Saturday onwards, I mentioned it over in the “four car 378” thread where a similar discussion was taking place yesterday..

 

[essex_commuter]

I noticed this tweet from LO today which seems to be indicating 710s will be introduced on the Romford-Upminster route before the end of the year. Is this true, as I thought a 315 was being retained for that route?

 

[swt_passenger]

I noticed this tweet from LO today which seems to be indicating 710s will be introduced on the Romford-Upminster route before the end of the year. Is this true, as I thought a 315 was being retained for that route?

You’re definitely right about there having been a few announcements (usually in TfL board papers) about a retained 315 for Romford-Upminster. However, the increased number of 710s ordered includes a couple for Barking Riverside extension, which presumably won’t be needed for a while yet?

I wonder if the 315 might just see use as a hot standby unit, if they’ve managed to tighten up diagrams for the rest of the fleet? But that would mean retaining traction knowledge might be a problem. Retaining one unit of a completely different type always seemed odd to me.

 

[samuelmorris]

Yeah I can see the singular 315, if it happens, relatively short lived.

 

[hwl]

Yeah I can see the singular 315, if it happens, relatively short lived.

Agreed I always saw it as being around for a few years to till the 710 bed in and the bathtub curve bottoms out.

 

[700007]

I noticed this tweet from LO today which seems to be indicating 710s will be introduced on the Romford-Upminster route before the end of the year. Is this true, as I thought a 315 was being retained for that route?

Interestingly there was an article in the Romford Recorder saying the same thing...

 

[ijmad]

Could be the social media staff being misinformed, or perhaps playing fast and loose with the definition of 'new', since I'd imagine any 315 they keep will be extensively refurbished and repainted?

Just playing devil's advocate, mind. If Rominster gets a 710, all's the better. Guessing it will be many years before we see a passing loop and 4tph up there unless it proves to be a very popular feeder for c2c passengers wanting to change to the Elizabeth Line.

 

[306024]

Wonder if anyone has told the MTR Ilford drivers that work the Romford - Upminster service yet?

 

[700007]

Wonder if anyone has told the MTR Ilford drivers that work the Romford - Upminster service yet?

Don't believe any have been informed of this yet to my knowledge. Don't see the point either when they're still getting their 345 training, which to them is obviously more important.

 

[AlexNL]

Maybe Bombardier has thrown in a free 710 as compensation for the late delivery of the Goblin units?

 

[ijmad]

I believe the original order was worth £260m for the 54 units so a 'freebie' would be something on the order of £4.8m. Anyone recall how much Bombardier is getting fined for the late delivery and/or how much the free month of GOBLIN travel supposedly will cost?

 

[BJames]

I believe the original order was worth £260m for the 54 units so a 'freebie' would be something on the order of £4.8m. Anyone recall how much Bombardier is getting fined for the late delivery and/or how much the free month of GOBLIN travel supposedly will cost?

Not sure exactly - but this free travel is now confirmed to start on the 31st August, finishing on the 1st October, as stated on the TfL website: https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/london-overground/gospel-oak-to-barking-improvements?intcmp=57697

I think the 710s are becoming more reliable anyways... aren't they? Haven't heard about too many faults but I don't regularly travel on this line.

There is a note in the article that there are planned engineering works on 28/29th September so that's why the free month extends one day into October and on the last day of August.

 

[childwallblues]

GOBLIN yesterday was 710261/62/65/66/67/69.

 

[ijmad]

Any rumours as to when and where the 710s might show up next? I'm assuming it'll be 710/2's on the Watford DC. The timetable there is still short one diagram because of apparent lack of 378 availability.

 

[BlyRF]

Any rumours as to when and where the 710s might show up next? I'm assuming it'll be 710/2's on the Watford DC. The timetable there is still short one diagram because of apparent lack of 378 availability.

Been hearing talk about it starting next on the DC line. Mostly to iron out the Aventra’s bugs relating to DC traction.

As for West Anglia, that will deffo be later as they also spend time iron out coupling issues (which personally I think shouldn’t take that long.

Always had this feeling Bombardier has used the LO network as a test bed for their new product so that when other TOCs begin mass receiving their stocks of Aventra’s they will almost come fault free. I think.......

As for cross rail sets, certain software progress will continuous well into 2020 at this point.

 

[Goldfish62]

Been hearing talk about it starting next on the DC line. Mostly to iron out the Aventra’s bugs relating to DC traction.

As for West Anglia, that will deffo be later as they also spend time iron out coupling issues (which personally I think shouldn’t take that long.

Always had this feeling Bombardier has used the LO network as a test bed for their new product so that when other TOCs begin mass receiving their stocks of Aventra’s they will almost come fault free. I think.......

As for cross rail sets, certain software progress will continuous well into 2020 at this point.

Re use on the DC lines to iron out bugs that would make sense because SWR need their 701s very soon.

 

[PBarnesHST]

https://www.citymetric.com/transpor...line-4732?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

"Great news! The Romford-Emerson Park-Upminster line will be getting new train stock. One four-carriage Crossrail-style train will ferry people across the three miles of Havering the track covers. The train on what has been, since May 2015, the tiniest piece of the orange Overground network has been breaking down for days at a time recently, so an upgrade will be welcome."

I thought LO were keeping a 315 for the Romford branch? Does it really demand a 4 car train?

Also a bit disappointed because when I read "Crossrail-style train" my mind immediately went to a 4 car 345, not a 710.

 

[hwl]

Re use on the DC lines to iron out bugs that would make sense because SWR need their 701s very soon.

There is already a TfL /LO /SWR agreement on cooperating on Aventra introduction /DC etc.
One presumes the additional software functionality on the SWR units will also be of interest to TfL/LO...

 

[samuelmorris]

https://www.citymetric.com/transpor...line-4732?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

"Great news! The Romford-Emerson Park-Upminster line will be getting new train stock. One four-carriage Crossrail-style train will ferry people across the three miles of Havering the track covers. The train on what has been, since May 2015, the tiniest piece of the orange Overground network has been breaking down for days at a time recently, so an upgrade will be welcome."

I thought LO were keeping a 315 for the Romford branch? Does it really demand a 4 car train?

Also a bit disappointed because when I read "Crossrail-style train" my mind immediately went to a 4 car 345, not a 710.

It needs the same 4-car design used elsewhere on the network more than it needs a special short version developed that can't interwork with the other units.

 

[BlyRF]

One thing to keep in mind is if there will be any issues when coupling 8 car or more Aventra sets for SWR's sake on the DC scale of things.

But once again I have full confidence quite a bit of progress has been made when it come to software updates of most functions.

Only thing I remain sceptical is the three signal system marring on the C345...

 

[hwl]

One thing to keep in mind is if there will be any issues when coupling 8 car or more Aventra sets for SWR's sake on the DC scale of things.

But once again I have full confidence quite a bit of progress has been made when it come to software updates of most functions.

Only thing I remain sceptical is the three signal system marring on the C345...

Lucklily 60 of the 701s are 10 car so splitting/joining on route won't matter (unless in emergency) so only really affects the 30x 5 car units.
I supsect the issues will get sorted soon enough and focusing on the power (DC) issues first makes sense than worrying about focusing on the MU ones.

 

[superalbs]

I don't know really why, or exactly which unit, but for some reason there is a five car Class 710 unit at Velim!

 

[CapitalStar378]

I don't know really why, or exactly which unit, but for some reason there is a five car Class 710 unit at Velim!

There are 6 (I think) 5 car 710s to add to the NLL/WLL fleet.

 

[PeterC]

https://www.citymetric.com/transpor...line-4732?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app

"Great news! The Romford-Emerson Park-Upminster line will be getting new train stock. One four-carriage Crossrail-style train will ferry people across the three miles of Havering the track covers. The train on what has been, since May 2015, the tiniest piece of the orange Overground network has been breaking down for days at a time recently, so an upgrade will be welcome."

I thought LO were keeping a 315 for the Romford branch? Does it really demand a 4 car train?

Also a bit disappointed because when I read "Crossrail-style train" my mind immediately went to a 4 car 345, not a 710.

The lone 315 always did seem an odd descision. I am not sure what makes a 710 "Crossrail style" though, presumably because the front ends of a 345 and a 710 both slope in a similar manner!

Does it demand a 4 car train? Probably not but its cheaper to use part of the existing fleet than have a single dedicated unit of a different class.

 

[supervc-10]

Well, I suppose they're both Aventra units!

 

[matthewmacleod]

From the perspective of most users, a 345 and a 710 are mostly the same aside from the different interior and exterior colour schemes, and maybe the extra doors. I imagine most people using this service are also much more likely to be users of the Shenfield branch than the GOBLIN, so they’ll be more familiar with the “Crossrail style” 345 than the 710. Makes sense on the whole!

 

[theking]

Why would they not have a 4 car unit? If they have a dedicated unit then they are screwed if it fails, at least if it fails as a 4 car they may be able to swap it out with a chingford unit at Ilford. Plus when it needs maintenance what would they do just cancel the service

 

[ijmad]

Does it demand a 4 car train? Probably not but its cheaper to use part of the existing fleet than have a single dedicated unit of a different class.

Supposedly, last time they did the calculations, the exact opposite was in fact true. Retaining a single 315 (the best conditioned train of the fleet) and maybe another for parts was more cost effective than buying another £5m train for a very lightly used line.

Interesting to wonder what has changed. Either they're getting a discount from Bombardier, or perhaps the 315s aren't in as good mechanical condition as was originally thought?

Why would they not have a 4 car unit? If they have a dedicated unit then they are screwed if it fails, at least if it fails as a 4 car they may be able to swap it out with a chingford unit at Ilford. Plus when it needs maintenance what would they do just cancel the service

It's a four car at the moment. Not good PR to be reducing train lengths, even on such a lightly used line.

In other thoughts, it occurs to me that the current journey, being 9 minutes, could actually support a 3tph service if the 710s could go just a smidge faster than the 315s (6 journeys = 54 minutes but turnarounds would be 2 minutes flat which is a bit tight. If you could do it in 8, turnarounds would be 4 minutes). Wonder if there's any possibility of that if the line gets busier after Crossrail opens.