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Northern Class 331: Construction/Introduction Updates

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simple simon

simple simon

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I am planning a trip from London with the aim of sampling the new trains - a 331 and a TPE. As far as this thread is concerned, I would like to know please is if the 331's are on any routes other than Doncaster - Leeds, if all services between Doncaster and Leeds now operated by 331's and if am I correct in believing that the service is hourly? I'm looking to travel next week. Thanks, Simon
 
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simple simon said:
I am planning a trip from London with the aim of sampling the new trains - a 331 and a TPE. As far as this thread is concerned, I would like to know please is if the 331's are on any routes other than Doncaster - Leeds, if all services between Doncaster and Leeds now operated by 331's and if am I correct in believing that the service is hourly? I'm looking to travel next week. Thanks, Simon
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Just Doncasters at the moment, and 321/322 still crop up regularly, even the odd diesel substitution (one reported this morning).

331s currently expected in service on Airedale/Wharfedale some time in autumn.
 
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Llama

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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but there is talk of increasing the maximum permitted speed of 331s to 110mph for the South Manchester services.
 
The Northern Star

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From a email...

Northern’s new train set to light up Blackpool


*Customers invited to experience state-of-the-art trains*



It’s not just the Illuminations which are giving people in Blackpool something to marvel at this week.

The lights, of which Northern is a sponsoring partner, are set to be switched on this Friday evening (30 August). And, just hours before, Northern will be giving Blackpool customers a chance to see one of the brand new trains that will be serving them from early September.

The train, a Class 331, will be at Blackpool North station from 3.30pm – 6pm (Friday) with customers invited to visit the station and walk around the state-of-the-art train. Northern staff will also be on hand to answer any questions.

Customers who attend will be able to see first-hand the features of the new trains and will be given special access to the train’s cab.

Mick Elliott, Northern’s station manager at Blackpool North, said: “I’m thrilled that new trains will soon be operating on three major routes to and from Blackpool North.

“It’s really exciting that our customers will have the opportunity to see our new trains later this week – and it’s great that we can give them this opportunity on the first day of the Blackpool Illuminations.

“Experiencing one of the new fleet of trains that will connect our fabulous town to Manchester Airport, Liverpool and York is a fantastic way to start the illumination festivities.”

Those attending can share any pictures with Northern on Twitter, Facebook and Instagram.
 
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The Northern Star

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331009 should be out on practical handling/training on Tuesday the 10th of September with a classroom lesson on the 9th of September. 08xx from Stockport depot. Sits in the goods loop there for around 30 mins

Subject to change
 
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superkev

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Had a ride out Sowerby Doncaster today inc a ride on 331 101. Impression was very quiet apart from the PA, quick and comfortable although the ride a bit bouncy.
331 109 was in Doncaster yard as it failed this morning. 101 and 106 where on Doncaster Leeds duties.
I cant understand why your supposed peaceful train journey should be ruined by such a loud pa with someone rabbitting constantly about something or other including unattended bags as well as loud bleeping doors.
Surely the only people who need to hear the door bleeper are next to the doors not at the other end of the coach.
K
 
td97

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Llama said:
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet but there is talk of increasing the maximum permitted speed of 331s to 110mph for the South Manchester services.
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Is that a paperwork exercise or mechanical/electrical upgrades? Sounds promising, even more so if they ever get the chance to have a proper run on the WCML.
 
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Not sure exactly that's needed, although the driver's wipers don't cope very well at 100mph so there's a start.

In seriousness, not sure if anything 'heavy' needs tinkering with, and they may need a derogation for the AWS (as 350s did under 'Project 110') and other issues.

Northern's safety case currently only permits operations at up to 100mph though. Even when we had the 180s we couldn't take them up to 110 on the WCML. Although one now-retired driver did 'have a go' at that and quite a bit more on a training run before they entered service in 2008.
 
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Where exactly would 110 be achievable before having to brake for the next station? I'd have thought that there'd only be a limited number of places where 110mph would have much of an impact on journey times, though it may help to stop WCML services from tripping over the Northern stoppers.
 
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I cant think of may places on the east side of Northern land where 100 let alone 110 can be sustained for very long.
Church Fenton - York and stretches between Sandal -Ardwick perhaps.
Not much point to me of 110 if only for short stretches of line.
More time could be probably be saved by shortening station stops by having the driver at least open the doors.
K
 
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Llama

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Crewe and Stoke are the routes in mind for 110mph running. Paths are very tight.
 
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scrapy

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Llama said:
Crewe and Stoke are the routes in mind for 110mph running. Paths are very tight.
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I was always under the impression that 331s would only operate the odd Crewe service, as they were planned to stay 319 operated throughout the franchise (and now look likely to be 323 operated when Northern receive more from the Midlands). 110mph running would only be possible on those that run non stop between Alderley and Holmes Chapel and even then for probably less than 2 minutes. This would possibly shave about 10 seconds off the journey to Crewe vs 100mph working.

Again 110 mph working is certainly not viable North of Macclesfield on the Stoke line, and I don't think would even be possible on the proposed 2nd hourly train that didn't stop at Adlington or Prestbury. South of Macclesfield i doubt you'd even save a minute.

I'd have thought if paths were so tight the 323s would have been increase to 100mph maximum permitted speed, which I know was looked at back in FNW days but not thought worth the bother and cost due to the minimal time savings.

I suppose if 331s could run at 110mph then I'd assume 195s could as well. This could give time savings on Barrow/Windermere services although timings are already very generous on the WCML and journey times hopefully could be reduced I the future
 
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scrapy said:
I was always under the impression that 331s would only operate the odd Crewe service, as they were planned to stay 319 operated throughout the franchise (and now look likely to be 323 operated when Northern receive more from the Midlands). 110mph running would only be possible on those that run non stop between Alderley and Holmes Chapel and even then for probably less than 2 minutes. This would possibly shave about 10 seconds off the journey to Crewe vs 100mph working.

Again 110 mph working is certainly not viable North of Macclesfield on the Stoke line, and I don't think would even be possible on the proposed 2nd hourly train that didn't stop at Adlington or Prestbury. South of Macclesfield i doubt you'd even save a minute.

I'd have thought if paths were so tight the 323s would have been increase to 100mph maximum permitted speed, which I know was looked at back in FNW days but not thought worth the bother and cost due to the minimal time savings.

I suppose if 331s could run at 110mph then I'd assume 195s could as well. This could give time savings on Barrow/Windermere services although timings are already very generous on the WCML and journey times hopefully could be reduced I the future
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It's only being looked at, and don't forget that the 331s are a bit quicker off the mark than a 323. The diagrams today are more intensive than in FNW days, as little as a quarter of a minute can make a difference for pathing. 195s aren't being considered at the moment as far as I know, and although they share a lot of the same equipment there is a big difference in their traction capability vs 331s. There are still issues with units of both types, eg the cab doors are still prone to popping open.
 
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Llama said:
It's only being looked at, and don't forget that the 331s are a bit quicker off the mark than a 323. The diagrams today are more intensive than in FNW days, as little as a quarter of a minute can make a difference for pathing. 195s aren't being considered at the moment as far as I know, and although they share a lot of the same equipment there is a big difference in their traction capability vs 331s. There are still issues with units of both types, eg the cab doors are still prone to popping open.
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Bit of an understatement that the 331s are a bit quicker off the mark.
The 3 car 331s are probably the UK's fastest emus with a 0-60 of around 30sec compared with Rail express magazine figure for a 323 of 51sec. Faster than my old Austin A35 :).
K
 
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superkev said:
Bit of an understatement that the 331s are a bit quicker off the mark.
The 3 car 331s are probably the UK's fastest emus with a 0-60 of around 30sec compared with Rail express magazine figure for a 323 of 51sec. Faster than my old Austin A35 :).
K
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Have to agree with that, Just out of interest, I did a not very scientific acceleration test on 331106 with my GPS app, leaving South Elmsall for Adwick, I got 90 secs to 100mph from platform start.
 
Railperf

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at60 said:
Have to agree with that, Just out of interest, I did a not very scientific acceleration test on 331106 with my GPS app, leaving South Elmsall for Adwick, I got 90 secs to 100mph from platform start.
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Leaving South Elmshall it is mainly downhill..so the figures tend to be better than on level track. Or you have to take an 2-way average both uphill and downhill to get the true picture.
Based on that a 331 seems to be in Class 700 league
The class 345s are significantly quicker to 60mph.
And so is a Class 395 Javelin. If the Class 755 FLIRTs performance in diesel mode is any barometer, they may well be faster in electric mode.
 
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Railperf said:
Leaving South Elmshall it is mainly downhill..so the figures tend to be better than on level track. Or you have to take an 2-way average both uphill and downhill to get the true picture.
Based on that a 331 seems to be in Class 700 league
The class 345s are significantly quicker to 60mph.
And so is a Class 395 Javelin. If the Class 755 FLIRTs performance in diesel mode is any barometer, they may well be faster in electric mode.
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Dont forget that that was a 4 car 331. The 3 cars (if we ever get them in Yorkshire as was the plan) are supposed to be several seconds faster which would make tthem the fastest uk emu.
K
 
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superkev said:
Dont forget that that was a 4 car 331. The 3 cars (if we ever get them in Yorkshire as was the plan) are supposed to be several seconds faster which would make tthem the fastest uk emu.
K
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it will be interesting - to say the least. And the 397's are going to be pretty quick too. Does anyone know the power rating of the 331's and weight for the 3 and 4 car variants.
 
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