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Scottish Electrification updates & discussion

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MadMac

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It's very difficult in terms of buildings on trackbed to extend directly from EK and the vast majority of demand is towards Glasgow so no real prospect of this.

Some readers may recall a proposal in the 1980s to build a new station at Kirktonholme (about halfway between Hairmyres and the terminus) and to swing the line round into the town centre. I think the Development Corporation was still in existence at the time and didn’t like the numbers they got for the town centre part!
 
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Ginaro

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Very sensible if this goes ahead in this form. At the risk of encouraging crayons, are there any proposals to extend the line from EK?
The easy bit would be extending the line to run through EK to the north - go under the road, knock some houses down and take over a cycle path. But then you've got to go through some new houses, a retail park and across a dual carriageway. At Blantyre you've got to rebuild the Craighead viaduct, go through lots of houses and across more roads - all so that people from EK can get to Hamilton or Motherwell town centre? Not happening. :lol:
 
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Photohunter71

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It is intended to divert freight from the East coast ports to Mossend to run via the ECML and the Sub. However this requires a new grid feeder at Curriehill, which is up to the grid to schedule. I think it will be another 2-3 years (it may be stated in a post somewhere in the previous 122 pages!)

I will post up here should I receive any works notification. I live just metres away from the South Suburban loop, so therefore should receive communications for works notification. Further to your post, If that is the case, then I'll be looking forward to a boost in freight passing my flat!
 

route101

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I will post up here should I receive any works notification. I live just metres away from the South Suburban loop, so therefore should receive communications for works notification. Further to your post, If that is the case, then I'll be looking forward to a boost in freight passing my flat!

How often do you get trains going through?
 

route101

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Some readers may recall a proposal in the 1980s to build a new station at Kirktonholme (about halfway between Hairmyres and the terminus) and to swing the line round into the town centre. I think the Development Corporation was still in existence at the time and didn’t like the numbers they got for the town centre part!

I think most the demand is commuters going to Glasgow than demand from Shopping Centre , which is dead duckk these days.

A loop around EK serving the town better would be ideal , be topography is not great for railway.
 

Photohunter71

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How often do you get trains going through?
It all depends on what is required in the order of freight logistics. Regular cement trains, engineers trains, Tyne Dock to Mossend or Grangemouth containers, occasional specials, the alcans, Torness to Sellafield nuclear flasks, and there are voyager movements around the sub to craigentinny or Polmadie, we're due 4 Caledonian sleeper movements from 1am on Saturday morning! And not forgetting the Glasgow Central to Waverley which passes by my flat around the 22:15 Mark most nights, and the Fife circles coming from Motherwell /Polmadie and the return leg of the journey. There is a fair bit of action around the sub most times, but it can still accommodate more freight movements, but it's all down to paths. It can and does have quiet spells from time to time. Hope this helps!
 

route101

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It all depends on what is required in the order of freight logistics. Regular cement trains, engineers trains, Tyne Dock to Mossend or Grangemouth containers, occasional specials, the alcans, Torness to Sellafield nuclear flasks, and there are voyager movements around the sub to craigentinny or Polmadie, we're due 4 Caledonian sleeper movements from 1am on Saturday morning! And not forgetting the Glasgow Central to Waverley which passes by my flat around the 22:15 Mark most nights, and the Fife circles coming from Motherwell /Polmadie and the return leg of the journey. There is a fair bit of action around the sub most times, but it can still accommodate more freight movements, but it's all down to paths. It can and does have quiet spells from time to time. Hope this helps!

Forgot they still ran the XC around the loop.
 

InOban

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It all depends on what is required in the order of freight logistics. Regular cement trains, engineers trains, Tyne Dock to Mossend or Grangemouth containers, occasional specials, the alcans, Torness to Sellafield nuclear flasks, and there are voyager movements around the sub to craigentinny or Polmadie, we're due 4 Caledonian sleeper movements from 1am on Saturday morning! And not forgetting the Glasgow Central to Waverley which passes by my flat around the 22:15 Mark most nights, and the Fife circles coming from Motherwell /Polmadie and the return leg of the journey. There is a fair bit of action around the sub most times, but it can still accommodate more freight movements, but it's all down to paths. It can and does have quiet spells from time to time. Hope this helps!
Not to mention the monthly delivery of a refurbished HST (we hope,)
 

AndrewE

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Forgot they still ran the XC around the loop.
I thought it was just for route knowledge retention, so if running late would go direct... Which is partly why I haven't risked a very late Edinburgh arrival via Glasgow just to enjoy the delights of the South Sub. (Also partly because I am lucky enough to have already done it on a freight train - in both directions too!)
 

route101

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I thought it was just for route knowledge retention, so if running late would go direct... Which is partly why I haven't risked a very late Edinburgh arrival via Glasgow just to enjoy the delights of the South Sub. (Also partly because I am lucky enough to have already done it on a freight train - in both directions too!)


I done it once , was dark though . One for the summer in June.
 

Class 170101

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One big lesson learnt from other electrification projects is not to start until you’re ready! There’s an awful lot of planning to do first.

ABSOLUTELY - probably the biggest lesson learned. Politicians knee jerked, Network Rail were so grateful to be getting electrification again, hardly any planning - huge cost overruns - MUST NEVER HAPPEN AGAIN

I just hope its soon enough before the wiring teams are disbanded and skills lost and as such the teams have to be re-formed and re-skilled adding to the costs.
 

Southsider

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I just hope its soon enough before the wiring teams are disbanded and skills lost and as such the teams have to be re-formed and re-skilled adding to the costs.
If the timescale is genuine and this is the next scheme to be undertaken it would suggest that the rolling programme of electrification has ended.
 

Bald Rick

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I just hope its soon enough before the wiring teams are disbanded and skills lost and as such the teams have to be re-formed and re-skilled adding to the costs.

They’ve long since gone!

But of course the wiring is just one small part, and arguably a relatively easy part, of the jigsaw. The planners, engineers, project managers, route clearance specialists, geo-tech specialists, utilities specialists, consents specialists etc etc are important too. And they all earned a lot over the last few years, and are (mostly) still in place.
 

AndrewE

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They’ve long since gone!
But of course the wiring is just one small part, and arguably a relatively easy part, of the jigsaw. The planners, engineers, project managers, route clearance specialists, geo-tech specialists, utilities specialists, consents specialists etc etc are important too. And they all earned a lot over the last few years, and are (mostly) still in place.
But, easy or not, you can't actually complete the job without feet on the ground. Preferably people who have done it before, and who have a loyalty or commitment to their job. All preparations are wasted without people out at night putting in masts and on top of wiring trains (or in a cherry-picker of some sort) actually drilling holes in bridges and tunnels and fixing brackets etc.
Don't forget that these people are working permanent night and weekends, getting themselves to and from a wide range of "booking-on" points and generally having their family and social lives trashed by the railway's needs for out-of-hours working. My last one was booking on near the Ovaltine factory for a night (or 3) in the Watford tunnels. The one before that was Leighton Buzzard, I think!
Truly, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!
 

AndrewE

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Oh, I don't think that @Bald Rick meant the work itself was easy, just that there's a lot of politics involved in getting those boots on the ground in the first place.
In that case I would say that they are very lucky indeed to have had continuous employment... pity that the hands-on people can't expect to benefit from the same luxury!
 

edwin_m

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But, easy or not, you can't actually complete the job without feet on the ground. Preferably people who have done it before, and who have a loyalty or commitment to their job. All preparations are wasted without people out at night putting in masts and on top of wiring trains (or in a cherry-picker of some sort) actually drilling holes in bridges and tunnels and fixing brackets etc.
Don't forget that these people are working permanent night and weekends, getting themselves to and from a wide range of "booking-on" points and generally having their family and social lives trashed by the railway's needs for out-of-hours working. My last one was booking on near the Ovaltine factory for a night (or 3) in the Watford tunnels. The one before that was Leighton Buzzard, I think!
Truly, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!
True to some extent, but a lot of these are general construction skills that can be kept up to date on other railway or even non-railway projects, and others are relatively simple to train up (or should be if the installation process has been properly thought through). The really critical skills are around OLE design and costing, developing those installation processes and in particular understanding how an OLE project interacts with the rest of the railway, what the risks are and how to avoid them next time round.
 

Fougasse

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True to some extent, but a lot of these are general construction skills that can be kept up to date on other railway or even non-railway projects, and others are relatively simple to train up (or should be if the installation process has been properly thought through). The really critical skills are around OLE design and costing, developing those installation processes and in particular understanding how an OLE project interacts with the rest of the railway, what the risks are and how to avoid them next time round.
Good linemen and good electrification teams are not as readily available or as easy to train as you seem to think. It took years to build up a decent electrification capability in Scotland and It will take years to replace if electrification doesn't start again soon. Regardless, it will still take time to get back to the same degree of efficiency never mind surpass it, which should be the target.
 

Bald Rick

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But, easy or not, you can't actually complete the job without feet on the ground. Preferably people who have done it before, and who have a loyalty or commitment to their job. All preparations are wasted without people out at night putting in masts and on top of wiring trains (or in a cherry-picker of some sort) actually drilling holes in bridges and tunnels and fixing brackets etc.
Don't forget that these people are working permanent night and weekends, getting themselves to and from a wide range of "booking-on" points and generally having their family and social lives trashed by the railway's needs for out-of-hours working. My last one was booking on near the Ovaltine factory for a night (or 3) in the Watford tunnels. The one before that was Leighton Buzzard, I think!
Truly, a chain is only as strong as its weakest link!

I was being specific about the wiring team. Most of whom came over from Italy AIUI. And are now almost certainly working elsewhere in Europe. They’ll be back when the work arises.

The rest of the work is relatively routine civil engineering, electrical engineering, signal engineering and stations work; and the gus and girls who do it all work similar regimes / hours as the wiring teams. But crucially they use these skills on non electrification works too. Rebuilding a bridge is the same whether it is for rail electrification or not.

The difficult bit is working out what to do and planning it all. Fortunately the people who did that are still in Scotland, and working on the next few jobs in the pipeline.
 

FS-2-11

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I just hope its soon enough before the wiring teams are disbanded and skills lost and as such the teams have to be re-formed and re-skilled adding to the costs.
Glasgow's North Clyde lines were electrified in 1960. That infrastructure must be coming up for large-scale renewal soon.
 

najaB

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Glasgow's North Clyde lines were electrified in 1960. That infrastructure must be coming up for large-scale renewal soon.
If the demands on it have remained more or less the same then rolling maintenance is all that's needed.
 

alangla

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Most of the kit looks in generally good condition. The masts are solid enough & insulators etc look pretty new along a lot of it. Pretty sure Parkhead feeder got replaced a few years ago too. Suspect the only things that are actually any age are the masts.
 

CBPolmont

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Perhaps relevant to this thread but looking out the window I just seen an LNER Azuma Pass by Laurieston on its way toward Falkirk Grahamston. According to realtimetrains it’s going to Perth and back.
 

Photohunter71

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Not to mention the monthly delivery of a refurbished HST (we hope,)
To be honest, I haven't really noted anything of that nature, but I will try to keep a lookout for movements! But back to the Electrification topic, would more clearance work be required further along the Sub loop, for instance the bridges at Woodburn Terrace, Oswald Road and Blackford Avenue and Myreside road?
 

najaB

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To be honest, I haven't really noted anything of that nature, but I will try to keep a lookout for movements! But back to the Electrification topic, would more clearance work be required further along the Sub loop, for instance the bridges at Woodburn Terrace, Oswald Road and Blackford Avenue and Myreside road?
Was work done to the named bridges for W12 clearance? If so you'd hope that it was done with future electrification in mind.
 

InOban

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In the NR reports on the progress of the last CP, it clearly states AIRC that the line is W12 cleared throughout except for some minor work near Millerhill, I think. However there are quite a number of bridges that will need new parapets.
 

mcmad

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W12 clearance does not equal electrification clearance though. There are a number of (flat decked) bridges which were clear for W12 prior to the project but not clear for wires. I believe these are now being looked at in detail to see if any of the efficient clearance solutions would work e.g. surge arrestors, insulating paint etc
 

Edinburgh2000

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..... would more clearance work be required further along the Sub loop, for instance the bridges at Woodburn Terrace, Oswald Road and Blackford Avenue and Myreside road?

Those bridges are in the Morningside and Grange Conservation Areas. They have low parapets at present (i.e. you can watch the trains easily from the bridges). With electrification the parapets would probably need to be raised which would create difficult architectural problems with these characterful stone bridges in this sensitive area. You could not just slap some metal screening onto the existing parapets.

This streetview at Braid Avenue (Woodburn Terrace) shows a good example.
 
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