someone has used my sons id after being caught without a ticket

gray1404 · 5 Nov 2019

It would be be a good idea for your son to have a look at their credit report with one or two of the credit reference agencies to see if their credit score has taken a knock or if any bank accounts or credit applications have been made in their name. Is your son positive they haven't lost any documents that could be misused for identify theft.

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stonewall77 · 6 Nov 2019

Just a quick update just returned from court. my son made a statutory declaration and has to appear back at court about the original offence which gives him time to provide evidence to the train company. Thanks for all the help

30907 · 6 Nov 2019

stonewall77 said:
Just a quick update just returned from court. my son made a statutory declaration and has to appear back at court about the original offence which gives him time to provide evidence to the train company. Thanks for all the help

Excellent news, thanks for the update.

gray1404 · 6 Nov 2019

Do post here how he gets on with the train company and if any further help is needed.

stonewall77 · 13 Nov 2019

quick update. my son was due in court tomorrow. he has just been in touch with me apparently the train company have dropped the prosecution. this was done via a phone call he is still waiting for an email confirming this. he rang the court this morning just to confirm it. many thanks for everyone's information and advice.

najaB · 13 Nov 2019

stonewall77 said:
he has just been in touch with me apparently the train company have dropped the prosecution. this was done via a phone call he is still waiting for an email confirming this. he rang the court this morning just to confirm it.

That is really good to hear.

stonewall77 said:
many thanks for everyone's information and advice.

And than you for letting us know the outcome.

gray1404 · 13 Nov 2019

stonewall77 said:
quick update. my son was due in court tomorrow. he has just been in touch with me apparently the train company have dropped the prosecution. this was done via a phone call he is still waiting for an email confirming this. he rang the court this morning just to confirm it. many thanks for everyone's information and advice.

That's great. And its good he has spoken to the Court as well to check that his case has been removed from the listings and will no longer be called.

Your son is now entitled to make a complaint to the TOC if he wishes to recover any costs and it is also arguable they made an error by not ensuring they had the right persons details before it went to court.

With regards to the ID card comment, I think it would make little difference. Most staff will gladly copy details from a driving licence so what is stopping someone loosing their ID card and then another person hands it over as theirs. Besides, we have rights and freedoms in the UK and should never have to have a lisence to exist!

reb0118 · 16 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
Your son is now entitled to make a complaint to the TOC if he wishes to recover any costs and it is also arguable they made an error by not ensuring they had the right persons details before it went to court.

Surely it should be against the person who provided the false details in the first place, no?

radamfi · 16 Nov 2019

Surely proceedings should be taken against the TOC concerned for this outrage?

ainsworth74 · 16 Nov 2019

radamfi said:
Surely proceedings should be taken against the TOC concerned for this outrage?

Why? They received information that an offence had been committed by a named individual. They will have doubtlessly attempted to contact them to find out more. Upon hearing nothing else they proceeded to lay the case in front of the court for the court to determine whether or not a crime had been committed. The correspondence in relation to that court case was ignored and so a judgement was entered against that named individual.

The problem here is that someone lied about who they were and then the correspondence that would have allowed the OPs son to immediately correct the issue (note that the TOC dropped it as soon as they became aware of the true facts) was sent to an old address.

I'm not sure that they did anything wrong here to be honest so perhaps you could provide some idea of under what grounds you'd take action against the TOC?

radamfi · 16 Nov 2019

ainsworth74 said:
Why? They received information that an offence had been committed by a named individual. They will have doubtlessly attempted to contact them to find out more. Upon hearing nothing else they proceeded to lay the case in front of the court for the court to determine whether or not a crime had been committed. The correspondence in relation to that court case was ignored and so a judgement was entered against that named individual.

The problem here is that someone lied about who they were and then the correspondence that would have allowed the OPs son to immediately correct the issue (note that the TOC dropped it as soon as they became aware of the true facts) was sent to an old address.

I'm not sure that they did anything wrong here to be honest so perhaps you could provide some idea of under what grounds you'd take action against the TOC?

It is clear that they got the wrong person. They should have ensured that they got the right person in the first place. It is completely wrong that people should go through such unnecessary worry and stress.

ainsworth74 · 16 Nov 2019

radamfi said:
It is clear that they got the wrong person, so the TOC should have apologised immediately as soon as they were contacted and immediately stop any proceedings.

They did stop the proceedings as soon as they were made aware. But they couldn't drop the matter until the court process itself was rest as the OP's son had already been convicted in their absence!

Fawkes Cat · 16 Nov 2019

radamfi said:
It is clear that they got the wrong person. They should have ensured that they got the right person in the first place. It is completely wrong that people should go through such unnecessary worry and stress.

The question would have to be whether the TOC acted reasonably. If it did, then the TOC isn't at fault: if it didn't, then there might be a case to pursue.

I don't see that it's the TOC's fault that someone lied to them, but it may be their fault that they believed the lie. But in turn for the TOC not to have acted reasonably, they would need a reason why they should not have believed the lie - and if the (false) name and address was given promptly without confusion, then why should the TOC have thought it was being lied to?

radamfi · 17 Nov 2019

Fawkes Cat said:
if the (false) name and address was given promptly without confusion, then why should the TOC have thought it was being lied to?

If all you have to do is give any valid name and address, then this could happen to anyone.

najaB · 17 Nov 2019

radamfi said:
If all you have to do is give any valid name and address, then this could happen to anyone.

In other countries they've solved this problem by having a universally issued and recognised means of proving the identi... of confirming the person claiming to be Individual A is actually Individual A.

Bantamzen · 17 Nov 2019

packermac said:
It would appear you have a good case. But in addition have you contacted the police to lodge possible identity theft, they will probably not be interested in doing anything but best to have these things recorded against future issues. The individual may be using your son's name for other things and that could in the end impact on his credit score amongst other things.
Also the above point about the bailiffs is very valid. Our neighbours when we lived in West London legitimately purchased their bungalow but had over 4 years of bailiffs turning up, demanding entry even when they were not who the documents were issued for. Sometimes these guys were very aggressive and seemed not too concerned someone else was living there or in upsetting the neighbours either.
Also assuming it is all sorted well in the end, and I am unsure of the legal process (may need a solicitor), but you must ensure the record is totally removed, not just that in this case the case is not proceeding.

gray1404 said:
It would be be a good idea for your son to have a look at their credit report with one or two of the credit reference agencies to see if their credit score has taken a knock or if any bank accounts or credit applications have been made in their name. Is your son positive they haven't lost any documents that could be misused for identify theft.

This is valuable advice, and I would urge that the OP & their son do this as soon as possible. If the person stealing the son's identify as soon as possible, they will likely do it again. As well as checking credit scores, bank transactions I would suggest changing any online account passwords in case the ID has been stolen through on-line activity. It might seem extreme, but there are way too many ways of stealing someone's identity online these days.

gray1404 · 17 Nov 2019

najaB said:
In other countries they've solved this problem by having a universally issued and recognised means of proving the identi... of confirming the person claiming to be Individual A is actually Individual A.

Thankfully the UK is not a police state whereby you have to carry an ID card, as a licence to exist. Introduction of such on a compulsory basis would greatly erode our rights and freedoms. I'd cards can be stolen too and used by someone other than the person it was issued to.

swt_passenger · 17 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
Thankfully the UK is not a police state whereby you have to carry an ID card, as a licence to exist. Introduction of such on a compulsory basis would greatly erode our rights and freedoms. I'd cards can be stolen too and used by someone other than the person it was issued to.

Well being able to easily give a false name and address is the flip side of the freedom you hold so dear. If you are opposed to compulsory ID being carried then you’ll also have to accept the TOC wasn’t in the wrong.

aye2beeviasea · 17 Nov 2019

There are other ways for a prosecuting authority to verify identity details without an 'ID card'. Demonstrating that the person charged is actually the person believed to have committed the offence is a basic requirement of bringing a prosecution. And ensuring that the prosecutor demonstrates this is a basic requirment of being a magistrate or circuit judge.

gray1404 · 17 Nov 2019

swt_passenger said:
Well being able to easily give a false name and address is the flip side of the freedom you hold so dear. If you are opposed to compulsory ID being carried then you’ll also have to accept the TOC wasn’t in the wrong.

But if I loose my ID card and someone gets hold of it, nothing stopping them using it and ending up in the same situation as someone giving false details like this case.

swt_passenger · 17 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
But if I loose my ID card and someone gets hold of it, nothing stopping them using it and ending up in the same situation as someone giving false details like this case.

Except it would almost certainly include a decent photograph?

ashkeba · 17 Nov 2019

swt_passenger said:
Except it would almost certainly include a decent photograph?

Which may be up to 10years out of date so anyone with similar hair and skin colours can use it which may not be much of a limit. Most UK people advocating ID cards have never lived somewhere where they suffer the reality of this wasteful practice, the extra tax or charge and still have identity thieves.

Llanigraham · 17 Nov 2019

gray1404 said:
Thankfully the UK is not a police state whereby you have to carry an ID card, as a licence to exist. Introduction of such on a compulsory basis would greatly erode our rights and freedoms. I'd cards can be stolen too and used by someone other than the person it was issued to.

There are plenty of European countries that require you to carry an ID card, I don't think any of them are Police states.

najaB · 17 Nov 2019

swt_passenger said:
Except it would almost certainly include a decent photograph?

Much more likely to be basic biometrics these days.

clagmonster · 18 Nov 2019

Bantamzen said:
This is valuable advice, and I would urge that the OP & their son do this as soon as possible. If the person stealing the son's identify as soon as possible, they will likely do it again. As well as checking credit scores, bank transactions I would suggest changing any online account passwords in case the ID has been stolen through on-line activity. It might seem extreme, but there are way too many ways of stealing someone's identity online these days.

I agree. I would also suggest reporting the identity theft as a crime to the Police, but would be unsure as to which force to approach. BTP or locals?

Haywain · 18 Nov 2019

clagmonster said:
I agree. I would also suggest reporting the identity theft as a crime to the Police, but would be unsure as to which force to approach. BTP or locals?

It doesn’t matter, they would all have the same lack of interest in such a trivial matter.

najaB · 18 Nov 2019

Haywain said:
It doesn’t matter, they would all have the same lack of interest in such a trivial matter.

Indeed. But the crime reference number might come in handy later.

WesternLancer · 18 Nov 2019

clagmonster said:
I agree. I would also suggest reporting the identity theft as a crime to the Police, but would be unsure as to which force to approach. BTP or locals?

Police Local to where the ID theft was done (eg the address where the post or whatever was stolen) I think. BTP only relevant for the crime on rail premises - use of the stolen ID, I suspect.

Antman · 19 Nov 2019

radamfi said:
If all you have to do is give any valid name and address, then this could happen to anyone.

Exactly and given how often this must happen, fare dodgers giving false details, surely there should be a more efficient way of resolving such issues?

najaB · 19 Nov 2019

Greenboy said:
Exactly and given how often this must happen, fare dodgers giving false details, surely there should be a more efficient way of resolving such issues?

It doesn't just apply to fare dodging. It's entirely too easy to give a false name and address and be on your way with the authorities being none the wiser.

someone has used my sons id after being caught without a ticket

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