313s on Southern: appalling

Aictos · 19 Nov 2019

While the Southern refurb was far superior to the GN 313s in every way, it’s sad to hear of them being run down when they’re quite good units and suitable for Southern on the coast although maybe not all the way to Portsmouth.

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WesternLancer · 19 Nov 2019

Hadders said:
Although technically they're dual voltage they can't/won't work on 3rd rail again without huge expense. This was discussed in a thread on the 365s a few months back.

'Huge expense' & 'DfT' - I think you have cracked it - we will be very likely to see 365s on coastway in due course then!!

But maybe only after a lengthy IET style procurement process has spent some money before hand...

PG · 19 Nov 2019

Hadders said:
Although technically they're dual voltage they can't/won't work on 3rd rail again without huge expense. This was discussed in a thread on the 365s a few months back.

Apologies I haven't been following that thread.

I did wonder if that might be a problem given that they haven't worked South of the Thames in decades.

But since both GTR and half of the 365's are now effectively DfT's puppies who knows what they might decide however unlikely.

Fincra5 · 19 Nov 2019

PG said:
Apologies I haven't been following that thread.

I did wonder if that might be a problem given that they haven't worked South of the Thames in decades.

But since both GTR and half of the 365's are now effectively DfT's puppies who knows what they might decide however unlikely.

If the DfT do finance the change - seeing as they own the units - then they could be a good replacement.

PG · 19 Nov 2019

Well, in theory :rolleyes:

, there would be less hassle required then some of the other recent old stock re-use project's...

However I'm sure it would have the potential to be just as much a fiasco as the 769s or Scotrail HSTs

hwl · 19 Nov 2019

PG said:
Well, in theory , there would be less hassle required then some of the other recent old stock re-use project's...

However I'm sure it would have the potential to be just as much a fiasco as the 769s or Scotrail HSTs

It would then be discovered during testing the new shoe gear that the 365s don't meet the current EMC requirements with a full 442-esque saga to follow...

WesternLancer · 19 Nov 2019

hwl said:
It would then be discovered during testing the new shoe gear that the 365s don't meet the current EMC requirements with a full 442-esque saga to follow...

That might mean the only option is to acquire a few HST short sets for seaford - B'ton - worthing....fit them with class 73 type power units...

Fincra5 · 19 Nov 2019

WesternLancer said:
That might mean the only option is to acquire a few HST short sets for seaford - B'ton - worthing....fit them with class 73 type power units...

I mean, I'd love to drive that! Haha

Doomotron · 19 Nov 2019

WesternLancer said:
That might mean the only option is to acquire a few HST short sets for seaford - B'ton - worthing....fit them with class 73 type power units...

Class 92s with Mark 2s and DBSOs. That's more like it.

bramling · 19 Nov 2019

Fincra5 said:
If the DfT do finance the change - seeing as they own the units - then they could be a good replacement.

I can’t see the 365s going back on DC as it’s a fair amount of work involved.

On paper, it would be feasible to replace some of the GN 387s with 365s, and send the 387s south of the river, either directly or indirectly replacing the 313s. There’s 6x 387 diagrams which do peak Peterborough work for a start, and for the remainder it could be theoretically be done by separating off the Ely services and making them 2x365, especially once Waterbeach platforms are lengthened as it removes the need for dividing at Cambridge. The remaining 387s would then be concentrated solely on the hourly Kings Lynn service.

I wouldn’t advocate the above though, as it would introduce performance risks, as well as perhaps being politically problematic.

Doomotron · 19 Nov 2019

bramling said:
I can’t see the 365s going back on DC as it’s a fair amount of work involved.

On paper, it would be feasible to replace some of the GN 387s with 365s, and send the 387s south of the river, either directly or indirectly replacing the 313s. There’s 6x 387 diagrams which do peak Peterborough work for a start, and for the remainder it could be theoretically be done by separating off the Ely services and making them 2x365, especially once Waterbeach platforms are lengthened as it removes the need for dividing at Cambridge. The remaining 387s would then be concentrated solely on the hourly Kings Lynn service.

I wouldn’t advocate the above though, as it would introduce performance risks, as well as perhaps being politically problematic.

c2c 387s?

Islineclear3_1 · 19 Nov 2019

Getting back on topic, the Southern 313's do their job well despite their age and intensive service, but they could see a carriage washer more often...

Gag Halfrunt · 20 Nov 2019

Doomotron said:
c2c 387s?

Gautrain in South Africa might be interested in those.

Doomotron · 20 Nov 2019

Gag Halfrunt said:
Gautrain in South Africa might be interested in those.

No further news on them other than rumours, and they have a lot more use here than there because GTR need more trains and the 387s will be incompatible with the Gautrain Electrostars. I think both the 379s and 387s will stay here for the time being.

Islineclear3_1 · 20 Nov 2019

Doomotron said:
No further news on them other than rumours, and they have a lot more use here than there because GTR need more trains and the 387s will be incompatible with the Gautrain Electrostars. I think both the 379s and 387s will stay here for the time being.

Mods, can this be moved to the appropriate thread please... this thread is about the appalling state of Southern 313's

RichardKing · 20 Nov 2019

A 313 was diagrammed to cover a 377 on a few Brighton-Hastings-Brighton services this morning. I was surprised to see it down here, but not as surprised as commuters used to the usual 377.

I believe this is the first 313 that has been down this way since the May 2018 timetable change.

Energy · 20 Nov 2019

Maybe the 707s could replace 30 of the 455s, then an order for more 707s, 16 5 car ones to replace the remaining 455s and 19 3 car ones to replace the 313s. As the rolling stock is controlled by the government I can see this happening, maybe some more 700s as well for Great Northern express services to take over 365s.

In the order would obviously be more units for capacity increase but I am not knowledgeable enough to know how many more should be ordered for capacity increase.

313s on Southern: appalling

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