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Chiltern Unit Refurbishments/Potential New Stock

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hwl

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The only problem with some of the flirts is the additional platform length required for the traction unit when running as diesels. I'm sure that a 23m car could form the basis of a universal design that could be deployed wherever needed at any time in their operational life.
Agreed. Chiltern can't afford to lose platform length hence it will be an under floor solution. Especially given the Stadler axle loads...

It is worth noting that the MTU battery hybrid rafts that are going into some 168s in parallel to the Angel 165 trial in 2020 can also be connected to a DC supply hence 4th rail would be easy on the shared section.
The raft motor is a little under sized for decent emu performance though.
 
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chiltern trev

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Platform lengths at 'principal/popular' stations on the High Wycombe line have undergone 2 extensions, first to 8 cars (10 years ago?) and then some/all of these to 9 cars (in readiness for the Oxford service).

Re electrification. If electrifying out to High Wycombe then extend to Princes Risborough providing electric traction up the bank from Prices Risborough to High Wycombe. Then push on via the single line to Aylesbury for the depot. And also Aylesbury to Amersham. If the Aylesbury/Amersham line was done first then cascade in enough dual voltage stock for the Amersham line so us to use the LT electrification. Maybe cascade in more dual voltage stock to cover the High Wycombe line and thus you would then have the nearer routes running a different stock to the longer Oxford/Banbury/Birmingham services for awhile.

And not forgetting electrifying the lines from South Ruislip through Greenford etc, to infill.

Note - cascading in stock provides a short term solution whilst a longer term whole route electrification is carried out - then provide a whole new fleet.

If electrifying at the Birmingham end, then that would be a Snow Hills line electrification to Stratford and Leamington so would may use the same West Midland stock for any local services out to Leamington (franchise swap/sub-contract?).

Also, could the 165s undergo a further refurbishment exercise to extend their life by another 10-12 years (beyond the original design life) to cover how long it would take to electrify given electrification is not funded or scheduled?
 

Mikey C

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Getting 165s off stopping services on the mainline must surely be a priority as they're only 75mph units. Unfortunately there's no obvious way of doing this short term without new stock or electrification
 

Mikey C

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About 6 at the moment I believe (due to the cow strike).

I assume Chiltern only employed cows as they're cheaper than humans, but they've had enough now and gone on strike as they're fed up with all the bull from the management

Sorry :E
 

Bletchleyite

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Getting 165s off stopping services on the mainline must surely be a priority as they're only 75mph units. Unfortunately there's no obvious way of doing this short term without new stock or electrification

I doubt this makes much difference as the acceleration is so sluggish. If anything 165s probably accelerate quicker than 168s/17x so make up the difference. It does all make Chiltern feel incredibly old fashioned - a Wycombe stopper for instance takes about an hour - I reckon with the wires you'd get that down to 45 minutes - the distance after all is quite similar to Tring.
 

hwl

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I doubt this makes much difference as the acceleration is so sluggish. If anything 165s probably accelerate quicker than 168s/17x so make up the difference. It does all make Chiltern feel incredibly old fashioned - a Wycombe stopper for instance takes about an hour - I reckon with the wires you'd get that down to 45 minutes - the distance after all is quite similar to Tring.
The battery hybrid trial should see some improvement in low speed performance depending on what they want to optimise.
 

hwl

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Also, could the 165s undergo a further refurbishment exercise to extend their life by another 10-12 years (beyond the original design life) to cover how long it would take to electrify given electrification is not funded or scheduled?

They should be good to beyond 2030 at least.
 

Prestige15

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What "High Speed Trains" are required? The High Speed Trains to Birmingham run out of Euston (and one day might run on HS2). The Chiltern line is never going to be faster than 100mph because there are no passing places (yes some could be reinstated but still wouldn't permit faster running) and the line isn't designed for faster speeds. The timetable is flighted well to maximise capacity - it needs stock much like the current 165s and 168s which have quick dwell times, not stock like 800s.


And back then we thought the Chiltern line will never go faster than 80mph...
 

Driverme10

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In the short term they are supposedly getting a few mk3s off greater anglia. Long term is anyones guess depends on who takes over franchise but think its likely to be bi modes (flirts have been mentioned) and possibly mk5s
 

Driverme10

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Yes slamdoors. I have no idea why, guessing because it would require to much training especially if it's not a long term solution.
 

Prestige15

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More slamdoors? Out of interest, why not Mk4s?

Some MK4s have already been scraped, TfW is getting a few and there is a possibility they could be getting more plus Grand Central/Union is also getting them.

Bi mode, MK5 or even a more modern cascade fleet (class 222 etc) we'll most likely to see in the future, in terms on Turbos and Turbostars, possibly CAF dmu, who knows, lets see what happens.
 

MatthewRead

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In the short term they are supposedly getting a few mk3s off greater anglia. Long term is anyones guess depends on who takes over franchise but think its likely to be bi modes (flirts have been mentioned) and possibly mk5s
What services will they operate?
 

43096

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What services will they operate?
I would think the same diagram the slam door set works now. There will be a dispensation for minimum use, I would think.

Reason for the change is because the Anglia fleet has PRM compliant toilets (in an FO - presume will re-seat to standard) and they have toilet tanks.
 

BucksBones

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I would think the same diagram the slam door set works now. There will be a dispensation for minimum use, I would think.

Reason for the change is because the Anglia fleet has PRM compliant toilets (in an FO - presume will re-seat to standard) and they have toilet tanks.

Oh, so it's not extra stock, just swapping one set out for another?
 

MatthewRead

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I would think the same diagram the slam door set works now. There will be a dispensation for minimum use, I would think.

Reason for the change is because the Anglia fleet has PRM compliant toilets (in an FO - presume will re-seat to standard) and they have toilet tanks.
That's a shame I was hoping there would be additional diagrams for the loco hauled sets but I guess not.
 

43096

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That's a shame I was hoping there would be additional diagrams for the loco hauled sets but I guess not.
They are not going to be able to introduce additional stock that is not fully PRM compliant.
 
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