Chiltern Unit Refurbishments/Potential New Stock

[CR165022]

A new set, ex GA, to replace the old slam door set they had

 

[Murray J]

Oh nice, has it transferred yet?

 

[ThameslinkUser]

Oh nice, has it transferred yet?

Currently in Eastleigh for refurbishment.

 

[Energy]

Nice, is it getting power doors fitted?

 

[43096]

Nice, is it getting power doors fitted?

No.

 

[Murray J]

Currently in Eastleigh for refurbishment.

Oh it's that set, thanks.

 

[CR165022]

So it's not just 165s getting hydrive treatment, 168329 has gone for treatment today
Also is there any update on 165004?

 

[Energy]

So it's not just 165s getting hydrive treatment, 168329 has gone for treatment today
Also is there any update on 165004?

Technically not hydrive as that is just for Angel's units (165/166s), Porterbrook have something very similar for the 168s with a new raft from MTU being fitted.

 

[Parthia]

Was a 165, had to be taken out of service at Solihull but managed an ECS move to Dorridge platform 3. By chance was on a WMR couple of trains back which picked up some of the people onboard it at Solihull. Overheard someone saying it hit the driving cab but think everyone was okay which is the main thing.

165005 1721 Moor St Leamington

Does anyone know what the number of the unit was, the extent of the damage and if it's in service?

It was 165005

 

[CR165022]

As if Chiltern wasn't tight on stock anyway, 168004 has been written off according to a Facebook post

 

[supervc-10]

I thought that it was a 165 that hit the tree?

 

[CR165022]

I thought that it was a 165 that hit the tree?

Yes, 165005, but that has been repaired iirc, 168004 went into buffers
My guess is that it had worse damage that was fixable, but would lessen the protection of the unit so it was written off instead, same as 390033

 

[Domh245]

Don't forget that 156478 was written off when it ran into floodwater, but was subsequently repaired and returned to traffic. Written off just means that it would cost more to repair than the unit's worth in Porterbrook's (and it's insurers?) view

 

[supervc-10]

Yes, 165005, but that has been repaired iirc, 168004 went into buffers
My guess is that it had worse damage that was fixable, but would lessen the protection of the unit so it was written off instead, same as 390033

Ahh OK. I didn't know that Chiltern had had 2 recent accidents!

Whether something is written off is complex. It is sometimes clear that something is not repairable, but often it's a complex decision. If the vehicle is repairable- then there are lots of costs involved. It's not just physically the repair- it can include a number of different factors. In cars we're all familiar with the idea of a courtesy car whilst a repair is underway. There's also the money that the insurer could get from selling/parting out the vehicle. With big expensive assets there is often a discussion between the owner/operator and the insurer.

For example- one of BA's 777s had an engine fire in Las Vegas a few years back. It was an older aircraft, and it experienced significant damage. Lots of people thought it would be scrapped- after all, BA have been replacing their 777s in some cases with newer 787 and A350 aircraft and there are also plenty of used 777s out there, but it was repaired. I would imagine that part of this would have been the costs involved in getting another used 777 to BA's standard with their cabin layout, their avionics etc all fitted.

The 168s are Chiltern exclusive, but have a lot of common parts with 170s. Those parts will be valuable, which might push the economic side towards writing it off.

 

[Energy]

I'm not suprised it is written of. There is less demand now because of Covid, when it picks back up again a replacement unit should be ordered with some extra trains in the next Chiltern franchise.

 

[Speed43125]

I'm not suprised it is written of. There is less demand now because of Covid, when it picks back up again a replacement unit should be ordered with some extra trains in the next Chiltern franchise.

That is extremely unlikely, I imagine we won't see anything new ordered for them until electrification gets somewhere. There are no DMUs available today that are compatible with any of their stock.

 

[t_star2001uk]

Not my picture. This was taken by a member of our engineering team. Apparently there were some components that had to be reverse engineered from the original drawings...

 

[Domh245]

Not my picture. This was taken by a member of our engineering team. Apparently there were some components that had to be reverse engineered from the original drawings...

Sounds a lot like the intention is to repair and return to service then?

 

[43096]

Not my picture. This was taken by a member of our engineering team. Apparently there were some components that had to be reverse engineered from the original drawings...

View attachment 83474

That doesn't look much like a write-off to me...

 

[fgwrich]

Not my picture. This was taken by a member of our engineering team. Apparently there were some components that had to be reverse engineered from the original drawings...

View attachment 83474

I'm surprised they have stuck with choosing to rebuild one of the original (Networker Mk2) cab designs than using one of the later ones, given the likelihood of there being more components available. Surely there couldn't be that much of a difference under the framework?

 

[Energy]

I'm surprised they have stuck with choosing to rebuild one of the original (Networker Mk2) cab designs than using one of the later ones, given the likelihood of there being more components available. Surely there couldn't be that much of a difference under the framework?

I believe only the cabs are different with the rest being the same/similar. I find it surprising they didn't go for the later cab.

 

[Mikey C]

Could have been an amusing hybrid, with different cab designs at each end!

 

[swt_passenger]

Not my picture. This was taken by a member of our engineering team. Apparently there were some components that had to be reverse engineered from the original drawings...

View attachment 83474

That wouldn’t usually be considered reverse engineering. Building something from drawings is the usual method.

Producing drawings where they didn’t already exist, now that would be reverse engineering...

 

[philthetube]

It would have to be compatible to the extent that no training was needed or the cost would be huge in the long term.

 

[DB]

I believe only the cabs are different with the rest being the same/similar. I find it surprising they didn't go for the later cab.

Why would they create something non-standard?

 

[t_star2001uk]

The main shell of the cab wasnt that bad. The majority of the damage was concentrated below the solebar...

 

[Energy]

Why would they create something non-standard?

It already is standard on all but the 5 168/0s, the rest of the 168s and turbostars (apart from 172/2 and /3s) use the later cab.

 

[DB]

It already is standard on all but the 5 168/0s, the rest of the 168s and turbostars (apart from 172/2 and /3s) use the later cab.

A unit with different cabs on each end would still be non-standard.

 

[supervc-10]

I would imagine also that they would have gutted the old damaged cab of everything usable, and then fitted those components to the new cab. Might not have been able to do that with the 170 style cab.

 

[david1212]

.. Chiltern do seem to be masters of diagramming in terms of getting the exact length of train needed ...

Masters of diagramming the absolute minimum to ensure a train runs I think you mean. They should never have been allowed to do the Oxford thing without sufficient additional rolling stock (and the handful of 2 car units they did get don't cut it) I'm afraid they're a franchise in terminal decline and are clearly focused on not spending any money on their existing stock

Across all franchises to me Arriva policy is ' sweating the assets ' rather than seeking to increase capacity. If Adrian Shooter was still at the top, pre Covid-19 anyway, all possible options for fleet expansion would be explored.

Right now medium / long term future passenger numbers and management are of course unknown.