• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Microsoft moving towards Cloud Accounts Only

Status
Not open for further replies.
Lucan

Lucan

Established Member
Joined
21 Feb 2018
Messages
1,211
Location
Wales
Microsoft is arm-twisting new Windows 10 users into signing up for a Microsoft Account, by making it hard to set up a local one. From :
https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/ne...ts-to-do-away-with-windows-10-local-accounts/
Microsoft is trying to make local accounts a thing of the past and push all new Windows 10 users to a Microsoft account ....

A Microsoft Account ... is associated with a user's email address and ties Windows 10 into all of Microsoft's cloud-based services, including Office, Outlook, OneDrive Xbox, etc.

.. Microsoft [have] quietly changed the Windows ... setup experience so that many users are no longer able to create a local account during set up ...

.. it makes sense for Microsoft to push users towards a Microsoft account rather than a local one to take advantage of [its cloud services]. .. Even more important, though, is all the juicy data that Microsoft can collect ..
Click to expand...
It is still possible to set up a local account during installation but it requires some jumping through hoops, and some functionality will be lost.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Windows generally is moving that way, and no great surprise because it will reduce piracy to near-zero. If you don't like it, of course, you can always opt for Linux.
 
Crossover

Crossover

Established Member
Joined
4 Jun 2009
Messages
9,253
Location
Yorkshire
Lucan said:
It is still possible to set up a local account during installation but it requires some jumping through hoops, and some functionality will be lost.
Click to expand...

This has been the case since the dawn of Windows 10 (possibly Windows 8.1, though I stayed away from that as much as possible!) - anything I have set up on Windows 10 runs local accounts (or domain, but that's a separate matter) and Windows works absolutely fine. That said, most of the "apps" usually get nuked to orbit, too!
 
R

robbeech

Established Member
Joined
11 Nov 2015
Messages
4,657
10 Pro still has this option without so many hoops, other versions require a bit of a faff, details can be found with a quick google search. (other search engines are available)
 
najaB

najaB

Veteran Member
Joined
28 Aug 2011
Messages
30,830
Location
Scotland
Lucan said:
It is still possible to set up a local account during installation but it requires some jumping through hoops, and some functionality will be lost.
Click to expand...
AIUI, the only fiddling that is needed is making sure the device isn't connected to the Internet during setup. Has this changed?
 
D365

D365

Veteran Member
Joined
29 Jun 2012
Messages
11,460
najaB said:
AIUI, the only fiddling that is needed is making sure the device isn't connected to the Internet during setup. Has this changed?
Click to expand...

This is what I’ve seen in YouTube videos, does it apply to the November 2019 update then? The last computer that I installed to didn’t have a WiFi card and Ethernet wasn’t plugged in at the time, so I couldn’t tell for sure.
 
Puffing Devil

Puffing Devil

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2013
Messages
2,766
DarloRich said:
what is wrong with a cloud only account?
Click to expand...
Aictos said:
Exactly, I use a Microsoft Cloud account and I can’t see any issues.
Click to expand...

The answer is in the Bleeping Computer piece and I think it encapsulates it very well:

By using a Microsoft account, Windows 10 will be more feature-rich at the expense of more visibility into your activity.
​
Your tolerance depends on your appetite for MS tracking your activity. When you sign-up to Gmail you know the deal. Windows is your paid for OS, a slightly different proposition, especially since the goalposts have moved in mid-flight. Unfortunately, some people seem wedded to MS Office others apps, such as Photoshop, that makes it hard to move away. I have to run a Windows machine for my CCTV, for instance.

I've switched many of my family to Linux and Libre Office, though it's a hard sell.

Edit: Typo fix
 
Last edited:
DynamicSpirit

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,150
Location
SE London
DarloRich said:
what is wrong with a cloud only account?
Click to expand...

Does it mean you need to set up a different Cloud account and email address for each login on your PC? If so, that's quite a faff for anyone who needs more than one login account on their PC. And unless the security advice has changed recently, that should mean almost everyone: Because the standard advice has been that you should have two logins: One with administrator privileges on your PC that you ONLY use when you need it (for example, to install a new app), and one without admin privileges, which should be the one that you normally use. That way, if you accidentally go to a dodgy website or download a virus, the virus doesn't immediately have admin access to your PC.

In my case, I normally use three accounts: The third is to provide a quick way of logging in with a completely different set of user display preferences, which I need for work-related reasons. I haven't needed to set up a new PC for quite a while so it's possible my knowledge is out of date. But I'm not going to be massively happy if, the next time I do need to set one up, I discover I need three different MS accounts.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
DynamicSpirit said:
Does it mean you need to set up a different Cloud account and email address for each login on your PC? If so, that's quite a faff for anyone who needs more than one login account on their PC. And unless the security advice has changed recently, that should mean almost everyone: Because the standard advice has been that you should have two logins: One with administrator privileges on your PC that you ONLY use when you need it (for example, to install a new app), and one without admin privileges, which should be the one that you normally use. That way, if you accidentally go to a dodgy website or download a virus, the virus doesn't immediately have admin access to your PC.
Click to expand...

There is no particular need to do that on Windows because it has "escalation" i.e. you are specifically asked before doing something that requires admin privileges. It is good practice on Unix because Unix doesn't have that.
 
DynamicSpirit

DynamicSpirit

Established Member
Joined
12 Apr 2012
Messages
8,150
Location
SE London
Bletchleyite said:
There is no particular need to do that on Windows because it has "escalation" i.e. you are specifically asked before doing something that requires admin privileges. It is good practice on Unix because Unix doesn't have that.
Click to expand...

While that escalation is good, is that sufficient by itself though? I'd imagine an awful lot of people will be in the habit of simply clicking 'Yes' whenever that dialog asking for permission to do something pops up, because they won't usually understand the technical details of what Windows is asking for permission to do.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
DynamicSpirit said:
While that escalation is good, is that sufficient by itself though?
Click to expand...

I'd say so, yes.

I'd imagine an awful lot of people will be in the habit of simply clicking 'Yes' whenever that dialog asking for permission to do something pops up, because they won't usually understand the technical details of what Windows is asking for permission to do.
Click to expand...

Fair point, but they're the same people who will just log in with their admin account anyway.

M$ do want to go the Android/iOS way of a walled garden which mostly avoids that issue (and gets them commission on app sales), but it's not really working for them.
 
Puffing Devil

Puffing Devil

Established Member
Joined
11 Apr 2013
Messages
2,766
Bletchleyite said:
Particularly as Libre is buggy bloatware, M$ Office is a far better product.
Click to expand...

You get what you pay for.... For most users, LibreOffice is more than serviceable. If you want to run complex sheets or snazzy document formats and layouts then maybe OpenSource isn't for you. Simple budgets, household correspondence and university essays are all easy and trouble-free, in my experience.

Same for Photos - many people can do what they need with GIMP, though Photoshop is more reliable for complex manipulation, also the years of learning that are invested in the product.

Running PC support for aged relatives is also easier - I had one who fell prey to the "We're from MS support, there's an issue with your machine" scam. Doesn't work on Linux.
 
Domh245

Domh245

Established Member
Joined
6 Apr 2013
Messages
8,426
Location
nowhere
Weirdly enough, I don't mind GIMPs UI and have heard nothing but bad things about it from other people, although I suppose that's more down to learning it than anything else. Or at least I should say I didn't mind it until I had to update it to the latest version which does have a terrible interface.

Incidentally, and semi back OT, that install had to be done because I'd done a clean install of Win10 where having a cloud account saved me from having to buy a new copy of the OS, I was able to carry the license (which was originally a win 8 license) over
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
Domh245 said:
Weirdly enough, I don't mind GIMPs UI and have heard nothing but bad things about it from other people, although I suppose that's more down to learning it than anything else. Or at least I should say I didn't mind it until I had to update it to the latest version which does have a terrible interface.
Click to expand...

I think it's one of those things that, like VI, is powerful when you learn to use it, but the learning curve is very steep for occasional use. It also, on Windows, doesn't follow the proper Windows UI paradigms, i.e. the MDI (Multiple Document Interface), instead littering your desktop with a million windows.
 
A

AndyCK

Member
Joined
25 Apr 2019
Messages
43
Bletchleyite said:
M$ do want to go the Android/iOS way of a walled garden which mostly avoids that issue (and gets them commission on app sales), but it's not really working for them.
Click to expand...

One of Microsoft's current big pushes is for people to use their online services (Office 365, etc), and a selling point is that a user can access their stuff from anywhere. I would imagine this is because it gives them a better chance to up sell - for example, the option to purchase more OneDrive space than the amount given for free with a basic Outlook account, for an extra amount of money per month or year.

Having accounts in the cloud to log into a PC or Mac doesn't really bother me personally. What bothers me more are apps whose entire business model is monetising my data, even if that's just to sell targeted advertising. I personally wouldn't get a Google Chromebook for this reason.

And for those that say to use Linux, even certain flavours are not immune to desires to collect data about users:

https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/02/16/ubuntu_data_gathering_plan/

To gather that information Cooke proposed adding a checkbox to the Ubuntu installer that says something like "Send diagnostics information to help improve Ubuntu". "This would be checked by default" Cooke wrote.

Data Canonical seeks "would include" the following:

  • Ubuntu Flavour
  • Ubuntu Version
  • Network connectivity or not
  • CPU family
  • RAM
  • Disk(s) size
  • Screen(s) resolution
  • GPU vendor and model
  • OEM Manufacturer
  • Location (based on the location selection made by the user at install). No IP information would be gathered
  • Installation duration (time taken)
  • Auto login enabled or not
  • Disk layout selected
  • Third party software selected or not
  • Download updates during install or not
  • LivePatch enabled or not
Cooke added that the data-recorder would also install Popcon, "to spot trends in package usage and help us to focus on the packages which are of most value to our users." The Apporrt crash detection tool would also be installed, "to automatically send anonymous crash reports without user interruption."
Click to expand...
 
J

johntea

Established Member
Joined
29 Dec 2010
Messages
2,602
I like Windows 10 at home but it is a complete mess trying to manage it on 4000 devices for my employer!

Server side isn’t great either, Microsoft in their dream world reckon everyone should be on Azure these days...I do like on Server 2016 also how there is a Xbox system service...
 
B

Bantamzen

Established Member
Joined
4 Dec 2013
Messages
9,739
Location
Baildon, West Yorkshire
DarloRich said:
what is wrong with a cloud only account?
Click to expand...

Honesty, not a lot, unless as stated you have either something to hide or are a little paranoid. Cloud services offer a lot more flexibility, being able to access from a myriad of devices is extremely useful especially on the move. I know some people do worry about what the extra visibility means for them, but by and large it is generally to understand what services you are using, trying to sell you more, and of course for use in targeted advertising. All of which you can choose not to take any notice of. Over the last few years I've used Google services extensively, and although seeing adverts popping up relating to things like searching can be a bit annoying, its the price I choose to pay for the use of their services for free. I get a lot more use out of them than annoys me, so all is fair enough. The same goes for M$.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
TBH, I trust M$ a lot more with my data than I do Google, simply because M$'s business model is to sell premium products and services rather than to harvest my data to pay for them. Apple are very similar.
 
A

apk55

Member
Joined
7 Jul 2011
Messages
439
Location
Altrincham
Cloud is ok when you have a good reliable fast internet connection either via cable, WIFI or mobile. However for example I have a laptop I sometimes use in places with no internet connection so I want isolated operation.
Likewise with my mobile phone which as a keen rambler I often use mapping applications and want to use them anywhere. There is a considerable number of locations where there is no mobile signal even in Greater Manchester area, so I normally use apps where you can download maps before you go and store them on the phone. A good one I have found is "mapy.cz" where you can download a reasonable set of uk maps (based on "openstreetmap"). Only problem is that they fill your phones memory- 3G for the uk so extra memory is advised.
 
B

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
97,879
Location
"Marston Vale mafia"
apk55 said:
Cloud is ok when you have a good reliable fast internet connection either via cable, WIFI or mobile. However for example I have a laptop I sometimes use in places with no internet connection so I want isolated operation.
Click to expand...

Many of the services offer that, such as Onedrive/Google Drive, and you can use "thick" Outlook on an Office 365 account if you want your email offline.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top