TOO YOUNG to be a Driver?

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

RailUK Forums

Headhunco · 14 Mar 2020

I’m a train driver in my early 20s personally I don’t think age is a factor in becoming a train driver as long as you pass the tests and interview and medical you’ll fine

tiptoptaff · 14 Mar 2020

In short, no you're not supposed to waste 20years of your life. Nor do you have to.

I was 24 when I was offered my driving job. I was 25 when I began my training. I joined the railway young, as an apprentice.

The driving grade is one that carries a lot of sole responsibility. They like to see some life experience that indicates you can handle it. A
19, you were offered a job as a trainee to become second-in-command of something that has an extremely high level of redundancy built in. You wouldn't be flying for several years after your offer. And when you were you'd not be in sole charge for many many years.

It's not seen as a second career. For those outside the railway who join, it may well be a second or even third go at a career. For those of us who joined the railway in a different role and applied internally, it's career progression and development.

What have you done, up until now, that would demonstrate an ability to concentrate for long periods of time? To demonstrate an ability to work safely and diligently. To demonstrate an ability to work calmly under pressure and in emergency situations. To demonstrate your ability to communicate clearly and effectively. To demonstrate you would be able to adapt to and cope with the (comparatively) horrendous shift work. Consider these things and more and then consider what would make you stand out from the 1000s of others who've applied, who by virtue of age, have years of the experience above.

Getting it young isn't impossible. But it's difficult

irish_rail · 14 Mar 2020

They seem keener on younger applicants these days so don't let your age put you off applying.

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

irish_rail said:
They seem keener on younger applicants these days so don't let your age put you off applying.

I'm very resilient, so I will just keep applying until I make the grade, it's just a bit disheartening sometimes when it feels like your age is ultimately the deciding factor.

cossie4i · 14 Mar 2020

A trainee Freightliner Driver we have has just turned 22 so it does happen.

tiptoptaff · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I'm very resilient, so I will just keep applying until I make the grade, it's just a bit disheartening sometimes when it feels like your age is ultimately the deciding factor.

It isn't. But read what I've written above. You need to demonstrate the experience

baz962 · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I'm very resilient, so I will just keep applying until I make the grade, it's just a bit disheartening sometimes when it feels like your age is ultimately the deciding factor.

Out of curiosity , what happened with the flying?

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

baz962 said:
Out of curiosity , what happened with the flying?

Money, as always with the aviation industry :'(

I didn't have the £120,000 required for training, thus unable to accept the position.

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

tiptoptaff said:
It isn't. But read what I've written above. You need to demonstrate the experience

I've tried to PM you but am unable to, I believe because I haven't reached the required post count yet. I'd love to know a bit more about your background prior to driving if you'd be happy to share? If not, i'll PM you when I can!

theironroad · 14 Mar 2020

Legally, you're not a!lower to be in sole charge of a train until at least 21. Some tocs have allowed people to commence training before then while others don't.

There are drivers out in their 20s but I guess for some in their early 20s they don't know what they want to do and for some the drugs and alcohol policies and often very unsocial shift work is not something they want to do until maybe a bit later on.

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

theironroad said:
Legally, you're not a!lower to be in sole charge of a train until at least 21. Some tocs have allowed people to commence training before then while others don't.

There are drivers out in their 20s but I guess for some in their early 20s they don't know what they want to do and for some the drugs and alcohol policies and often very unsocial shift work is not something they want to do until maybe a bit later on.

You may be onto something there, maybe the lack of young drivers is actually because of the lack of applicants in the first place. Interesting thought.

driver9000 · 14 Mar 2020

There are plenty of Drivers in their 20s. I was 23 when I became a Driver and some TOCs will allow you to start training aged 20 but you won't be allowed to take charge of a train until you're 21.

387star · 14 Mar 2020

Loads in their twenties especially at get your key TOCS like GTR and Southeastern I started at 26

KT530 · 14 Mar 2020

Very much depends on the individual, attitude and the transferrable skills they are able to offer, but naturally if you’re slightly older you’re more likely to have a little more to offer and life experience.

I’ve seen some good calibre younger ones who are conscientious and have the right attitude, as well as some older ones who are too aggressive and hot-headed, which is reflected in the incidents they have.

Economist · 14 Mar 2020

I was offered a train driving job at my early-mid twenties, qualified fairly young, as have many others. It helped that putting flying down on my CV helped, so if you haven't done gliding, or a PPL, consider starting. Gliding is of course, very cheap, and if you can solo and qualify, it will look very good on a CV.

As you may have seen on a well-known pilot's forum, it is/was difficult to get into the airline industry as a pilot once you're over 35. It was apparently getting better pre-CoVID-19, though there are quite a few people who I know who still think there is an element of ageism that still exists, mainly due to the fact that they airlines think older people take longer to learn new things. On the trains, the average age for a trainee driver is late 30's, I know people who started as a trainee well into their 50's and went on to qualify. You have to learn a tremendous amount to qualify as a driver and the course is similar in length to an integrated/MPL programme, the train companies don't assume older trainees will struggle with learning and as it turns out, they usually succeed.

The airlines have historically looked for potential, basically future captains. It doesn't matter if you have lots of life experience at the time of application (some helps) because you'll be gaining experience in the right-hand seat for a few years. The first officer is effectively a captain in training and whilst they have an important part to play on any flight deck, in their first few years they are able to learn from the decisions that are ultimately made by the person to their left.

On the trains, once you've qualified, you are out on your own and you need to be able to handle whatever you come across, therefore life experience plays a much greater role in the job. Pretty much all of the younger folk I've come across have had some sort of safety-critical experience before getting onto the railway.

You wouldn't be the first would-be pilot to have gone down the train driving route, I believe there may be one or two on here. As long as the airline industry in the UK refuses to fund pilot training, people will look elsewhere and a career driving trains is an increasingly popular choice.

43066 · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

Curious what happened with the flying? I assume either a medical issue or financial?

There was a guy on my rules course in his early 20s, and I can think of several others.

As others have said there’s no such thing as “too young” (subject to being over 21) but inevitably someone in their early 20s will have less experience to draw from in order to demonstrate the required skills.

Aivilo · 14 Mar 2020

Providing your 21 at time of pass out most TOCs will take you on. I was 23 when I passed out and know of so many others in there early twenties that are driving

Snow1964 · 14 Mar 2020

theironroad said:
Legally, you're not a!lower to be in sole charge of a train until at least 21. Some tocs have allowed people to commence training before then while others don't.

There are drivers out in their 20s but I guess for some in their early 20s they don't know what they want to do and for some the drugs and alcohol policies and often very unsocial shift work is not something they want to do until maybe a bit later on.

Does seem odd that it is higher than flying a passenger plan in UK

My nephew did his A levels at 18, went to flight school in Southampton (which included a stint in Arizona), at end of course got a job as Pilot (First officer) with EasyJet. Can’t remember if he was still 19 or just turned 20 when he started.

For first few weeks had to be with a training Captain (rather than regular Captain), but after that was effectively allowed to be in control at times.

There have been others that are 19 when joined, same flying school route, and if you are young in your school year, then will be teenager flying the passengers

Thedispatcher · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

I started at 18, guard at 21, and now I’m not far from passing out as a driver at 23. Yes, I did have to start at the bottom but to suggest it takes anywhere like 20 years is wrong. If you’ve got the right mindset and keep your nose clean you can get there quite quickly.

Even if someone offered you a job flying jets at 19, be prepared to take a job further down the ladder. At least the railway is still an industry where you can work your way up, as long as you can pass the tests/interview/medical.

The influx of older applicants is most likely down to the exodus of emergency services staff. Prison officers and police are both popular with TOCs as trainee drivers.

Best of luck to you.

Heaps92 · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

I was 25 so that's not true

anglian96 · 14 Mar 2020

I was 23 when I passed as a driver. There's plenty of young drivers

Tom Quinne · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

Arrvia Trains Wales held / hold the record for youngest Mainline driver, he passed out on his 21st birthday.

So no, you don’t have to - but you need a pretty special application and competency evidence to get offered a job, or have a father who is in the special club of funny handshakes...

yorkie · 14 Mar 2020

Not quite the same as a NR TOC but a member of this forum became a London Underground driver at 18. There is a (low quality) video here (which I believe was filmed a few days before he turned 19):

.
This was back in 2009, so coming up to 11 years ago now!

big all · 14 Mar 2020

I was one of the first sub-23 year old drivers; I was a secondman at Redhill.

I was 22 in 1976 when they dropped the age to 21, which allowed me to get my job at Coulsdon North.

The railway actually tried to pull a flanker by passing us through the old shorter about 7 weeks training system rather than the agreed - but not yet finalised - 24 week training, which included rules and regulations.

Tom Quinne · 14 Mar 2020

I wasn’t sure about LU, but there you go.

Huge respect to the lad (then) man (now) set up for life all being well.

baz962 · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
Money, as always with the aviation industry
I didn't have the £120,000 required for training, thus unable to accept the position.

Ah ok , sorry to hear that.

Ludus · 14 Mar 2020

Economist said:
I was offered a train driving job at my early-mid twenties, qualified fairly young, as have many others. It helped that putting flying down on my CV helped, so if you haven't done gliding, or a PPL, consider starting. Gliding is of course, very cheap, and if you can solo and qualify, it will look very good on a CV.

As you may have seen on a well-known pilot's forum, it is/was difficult to get into the airline industry as a pilot once you're over 35. It was apparently getting better pre-CoVID-19, though there are quite a few people who I know who still think there is an element of ageism that still exists, mainly due to the fact that they airlines think older people take longer to learn new things. On the trains, the average age for a trainee driver is late 30's, I know people who started as a trainee well into their 50's and went on to qualify. You have to learn a tremendous amount to qualify as a driver and the course is similar in length to an integrated/MPL programme, the train companies don't assume older trainees will struggle with learning and as it turns out, they usually succeed.

The airlines have historically looked for potential, basically future captains. It doesn't matter if you have lots of life experience at the time of application (some helps) because you'll be gaining experience in the right-hand seat for a few years. The first officer is effectively a captain in training and whilst they have an important part to play on any flight deck, in their first few years they are able to learn from the decisions that are ultimately made by the person to their left.

On the trains, once you've qualified, you are out on your own and you need to be able to handle whatever you come across, therefore life experience plays a much greater role in the job. Pretty much all of the younger folk I've come across have had some sort of safety-critical experience before getting onto the railway.

You wouldn't be the first would-be pilot to have gone down the train driving route, I believe there may be one or two on here. As long as the airline industry in the UK refuses to fund pilot training, people will look elsewhere and a career driving trains is an increasingly popular choice.

You've pretty much described my situation to a T. I already do plenty of gliding and am half way through my PPL.
I unfortunately had to pass up my position at EZY purely because of financial reasons. My plan has since been to complete flight training modularly, as you seem fairly clued up with aviation I'm sure you know the true financial costs and sacrifices involved in pilot training. The affect COVID-19 has had on the industry is absolutely unprecedented and even worse than post 9/11, realistically we're looking at over 10 years until employment in the aviation industry returns to anything it was pre-virus. This has led me to make a drastic decision in my life, one I never thought I'd have to make, to put flying aside and focus on a new career. Train Driving has been my plan B to flying since I was a very young age, and so this is where I currently am in my life.

43066 said:
Curious what happened with the flying? I assume either a medical issue or financial?

There was a guy on my rules course in his early 20s, and I can think of several others.

As others have said there’s no such thing as “too young” (subject to being over 21) but inevitably someone in their early 20s will have less experience to draw from in order to demonstrate the required skills.

It was indeed financial. I still fly privately and am slowly getting my PPL. Unfortunately, COVID-19 has completely devastated the industry and right now it just isn't a viable employment option, all I'm doing is throwing good money after bad. It's time for a switch up!

hooverboy · 14 Mar 2020

43066 said:
Curious what happened with the flying? I assume either a medical issue or financial?

There was a guy on my rules course in his early 20s, and I can think of several others.

As others have said there’s no such thing as “too young” (subject to being over 21) but inevitably someone in their early 20s will have less experience to draw from in order to demonstrate the required skills.

that depends.

I think flight school/gliding is a very good example of responsibility/safety critical.
if you joined the air cadets at 14 or so,then chances are you already have a good enough grounding for TOC and further training.

I did gliding many,many years ago with a family friend.
the words "you have control" are bloody terrifying the first time you hear them!..even with an instructor in the back of the plane you know any serious cock up on the controls is going to land you in a lot of bother!

I remember being very cautious indeed when attempting any sort of manoeuvres.

Liam00086 · 14 Mar 2020

Ludus said:
I've seen plenty of posts on here regarding older applicants mainly being the ones landing Trainee Driver jobs. I have very rarely seen posts the other way around, so I thought I would start a discussion for some of the younger applicants here (which from my experience there doesn't appear to be many on here anyway).

I've been a lurker as a guest on these forums for a couple of years now and out of all the threads I have read, I think the youngest I've ever seen someone gain a Trainee Drivers job was 22, and that was ONCE. The general trend however, appears to be most of those accepted as drivers tend to be in their 40's with some of those in their 30's and 50's also thrown into the mix. But it does appear it is never those in their 20's that gain these positions. I know Train Driving is nowadays considered a "second career" which I honestly think is a great shame. I guess my question is WHY? Why is this still the case on British Railways? I know if we look at the history of the railway it used to be those in their teens and twenties would start from rock bottom cleaning engines, then become firemen and many years later becoming drivers, often in their 40's. Is this just a case of the Railway being stuck in the past?

Just for some perspective, I'm 21 years old and have yet to get through even the application stage. When I was 19, I applied to easyJet and after months of extreme vetting and testing I was offered the job as a Pilot! I was 19 and offered a job to fly jets around the world, however, you can't even apply to the railway until you're 21! So how do young people get a chance? Are we really just supposed to waste 20 years of our lives on a career just to get a bloody interview by the time we're 40? It just doesn't make sense to me in the slightest...

Does anyone on here have any advice for young hopefuls or perhaps any young drivers could share their stories with us?

There is a 21yo on my course at the moment, don’t worry about your age, if you have what they want you will have a good a shot as anyone older.

TOO YOUNG to be a Driver?

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