TOC plans regarding advance tickets if destinations become no-go (Coronavirus)?

bramling · 17 Mar 2020

Kite159 said:
Agreed, we all know some media outlets love a chance to make the railways look inflexible and evil.

Although it isn't just the railways making things hard if you want to cancel due to following the advice to limit travel, try getting money back from hotel rooms, some are allowing transfers to alternative dates but who knows when it will be safe to resume leisure travel

It’s interesting the definition of “travel” is quite vague. We have hotels booked for May, June and July - we’d be going by car, and apart from eating (which we could get round ultimately by taking a small microwave with us) we wouldn’t be doing anything on the risk list, as pretty much all of our activities are outdoors. As long as the hotels remain open as things stand I’d have no intention of calling off.

Everything we have booked is flexible and pay-on-arrival so no issue with losing money - last year we took maximum advantage of this which with some flexing of work dates allowed us to make the most of the very few decent weeks Britain’s 2019 summer weather offered! Because of the unpredictable weather I simply wouldn’t book a non-refundable British holiday - so I must admit to being miffed that people seem to wish to accept the discount that a non-refundable rate offers and then not play by the rules, and to be fair in my view it’s unfair to the hotels as well.

RailUK Forums

dvboy · 17 Mar 2020

yorkie said:
They aren't allowed to

What's stopping them?

sheff1 · 17 Mar 2020

Kite159 said:
Although it isn't just the railways making things hard if you want to cancel due to following the advice to limit travel, try getting money back from hotel rooms ...

As I posted a couple of days ago, I have received emails from various hotel chains advising that, if I wish, I can cancel any stays booked for forthcoming weeks without any cancellation charges.

PG · 18 Mar 2020

dvboy said:
What's stopping them?

more like it is Who's stopping them?

xydancer · 18 Mar 2020

sheff1 said:
As I posted a couple of days ago, I have received emails from various hotel chains advising that, if I wish, I can cancel any stays booked for forthcoming weeks without any cancellation charges.

I too have had no problems at all with refunds from hotels, even those chains and groups who have not announced or e-mailed outlining their policy.

Bletchleyite · 18 Mar 2020

PG said:
more like it is Who's stopping them?

The Government, because it might not be ready to bail out?

gcmozart · 18 Mar 2020

Information on South Eastern website is that they will refund Advance tickets

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/coronavirus-refund-information

relevant section

Refunds for tickets that have not started yet (including Advance tickets)

Tickets purchased from Southeastern which have not started yet can be refunded in full.

This includes both daily tickets and season tickets.

Southeastern will not charge any admin fees.

Under normal circumstances Advance tickets are not refundable, but we have temporarily waived this rule and Advance tickets will now be fully refundable and we will not charge you an admin fee for this service.

Bletchleyite · 18 Mar 2020

It's worth reminding people that there's already a process for refunding unused season tickets which have started, by calculating what tickets you would have bought if you hadn't bought the season.

trainophile · 18 Mar 2020

gcmozart said:
Information on South Eastern website is that they will refund Advance tickets

https://www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/help-and-contact/get-in-touch/coronavirus-refund-information

relevant section

Refunds for tickets that have not started yet (including Advance tickets)

Tickets purchased from Southeastern which have not started yet can be refunded in full.

This includes both daily tickets and season tickets.

Southeastern will not charge any admin fees.

Under normal circumstances Advance tickets are not refundable, but we have temporarily waived this rule and Advance tickets will now be fully refundable and we will not charge you an admin fee for this service.

So it's not impossible/not allowed then?

yorkie · 18 Mar 2020

trainophile said:
So it's not impossible/not allowed then?

It's not allowed. Either Southeastern will be told to change their position or, if a critical mass of TOCs agrees that refunds should be available and/or if the DfT steps in to mandate that, then everyone will allow it.

The key point here is that, according to trusted sources, it has been agreed at a high level that there should be consistency on this issue.

MKB · 18 Mar 2020

I'm disappointed to see that, following the advice of this forum to use trainsplit.com to get seat reservations on Avanti, I am doubly hit. I can only change my Advance tickets for a future (unknown) date, despite government advice to avoid all non-essential travel, and I am still stung for a £10/ticket admin fee that even Avanti are waiving. None of my bookings were even split-ticketing ones, so, in hindsight, it looks like I should have booked direct (or maybe via LNER or XC). Lesson learned for the future.

trainophile · 18 Mar 2020

MKB said:
I'm disappointed to see that, following the advice of this forum to use trainsplit.com to get seat reservations on Avanti, I am doubly hit. I can only change my Advance tickets for a future (unknown) date, despite government advice to avoid all non-essential travel, and I am still stung for a £10/ticket admin fee that even Avanti are waiving. None of my bookings were even split-ticketing ones, so, in hindsight, it looks like I should have booked direct (or maybe via LNER). Lesson learned for the future.

Likewise

. £100 down the drain effectively, as I'm not prepared to chuck another £40 at a booking I may never be able to keep.

yorkie · 18 Mar 2020

MKB said:
I'm disappointed to see that, following the advice of this forum to use trainsplit.com to get seat reservations on Avanti, I am doubly hit. I can only change my Advance tickets for a future (unknown) date, despite government advice to avoid all non-essential travel, and I am still stung for a £10/ticket admin fee that even Avanti are waiving. None of my bookings were even split-ticketing ones, so, in hindsight, it looks like I should have booked direct (or maybe via LNER or XC). Lesson learned for the future.

Firstly, regarding a refund for Advance fares, the train companies (collectively) are not allowing retailers to issue them (except under the usual T&Cs, such as where a train is cancelled, of course)

However you should not be charged a £10/ticket admin fee to change the ticket. Firstly, for Trainsplit bookings the admin fee is £10 per transaction (not per ticket!) under normal circumstances. Secondly, my understanding is that the admin fee is waived throughout the industry at the current time.

So if you have been charged an admin fee clearly a mistake has been made. If you send me a PM with your booking ref number I will raise this directly with a contact Raileasy.

If you do not yet know the date of travel, I believe you could re-book it for a future date and change it again if you need to.

trainophile said:
Likewise . £100 down the drain effectively, as I'm not prepared to chuck another £40 at a booking I may never be able to keep.

If the train is cancelled you will be able to get a refund no matter what. Given a revised timetable is due to be released soon, it may well be the case that your train is cancelled.

Moderator note: If anyone wishes to discuss the wider issues regarding 'do not travel' advice, but not specifically on the subject of rail fares, please use: https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...avel-and-gathering.202231/page-7#post-4490552

trainophile · 18 Mar 2020

Just popped up on Twitter
https://www.transportfocus.org.uk/n...statement-on-coronavirus-rail-ticket-refunds/

Statement on Coronavirus – rail ticket refunds
17th March 2020

Transport Focus welcomes the news that rail passengers seeking refunds or to change tickets won’t pay the usual £10 administration fee, but wants train companies to also look at:

providing a refund or open-ended ‘credit’ on Advance tickets passengers no longer need (these are not normally refundable) – so far, Southeastern is giving refunds and LNER is giving credits

consider changes to refund arrangements for season ticket holders. The normal refund rules aren’t designed for when passengers have been advised to avoid travel for a potentially long period.

Anthony Smith, chief executive of the independent watchdog Transport Focus, said:

“We welcome Southeastern’s decision that passengers with Advance tickets they no longer need can have their money back – other train companies should follow that lead. At the very least there should be a ‘credit’ issued – with no time limit to spend it – as LNER has announced.

“Season ticket holders matter as well – people shouldn’t be expected to carry on paying to get to work if they are being advised to stay at home.

“The Coronavirus is creating exceptional circumstances which don’t always fit the normal ticket refund rules – it’s important that train companies do the right thing by passengers who end up not travelling.”

Transport Focus has produced a summary of what different transport companies are saying about ticket refunds. We will keep this updated as the situation changes.

Kite159 · 18 Mar 2020

yorkie said:
Firstly, regarding a refund for Advance fares, the train companies (collectively) are not allowing retailers to issue them (except under the usual T&Cs, such as where a train is cancelled, of course)

However you should not be charged a £10/ticket admin fee to change the ticket. Firstly, for Trainsplit bookings the admin fee is £10 per transaction (not per ticket!) under normal circumstances. Secondly, my understanding is that the admin fee is waived throughout the industry at the current time.

So if you have been charged an admin fee clearly a mistake has been made. If you send me a PM with your booking ref number I will raise this directly with a contact Raileasy.

If you do not yet know the date of travel, I believe you could re-book it for a future date and change it again if you need to.

If the train is cancelled you will be able to get a refund no matter what. Given a revised timetable is due to be released soon, it may well be the case that your train is cancelled.

From reading the Corona Virus page on Train Split, it sounds like they are charging £10 to change advance tickets (via making a new booking, and submitting the original booking for a refund less £10, no mention of the admin fee being waived.

https://www.trainsplit.com/coronavirus.aspx

The process of amendment is to re-book the journey as we are unable to alter dates/times of booked tickets.
If your booking consists of ADVANCE tickets, you are required to re-book the entire journey first and then submit the online refund application form (link at the bottom of your confirmation email).
Note that for Advance tickets, only times and dates may be amended before the original journey but not the origin or destination.
You do not have to collect tickets for the journey. All refunds are subjected to a £10 admin fee from the total face value of the tickets of the cheaper value booking.
Booking fees and share of split savings (if any) and any differences in ticket price are non-refundable.
If you are unsure as to when you want to re-book, please re-book as far as you can in the future and we will refund the originals less £10 admin fee.
If you need to amend your re-booking when the time comes, please get in touch with us.

Unless I'm reading that incorrectly

Bletchleyite · 18 Mar 2020

Isn't that oversimplistic? You need to amend as far out as possible to a train which is the same price. If you pick a cheaper one you will lose some of the residual value.

(I recall playing this game with sleasyJet flights for work during the ash cloud crisis)

trainophile · 18 Mar 2020

Bletchleyite said:
Isn't that oversimplistic? You need to amend as far out as possible to a train which is the same price. If you pick a cheaper one you will lose some of the residual value.

(I recall playing this game with sleasyJet flights for work during the ash cloud crisis)

I have never actually used it so this is speculative, but I find systems where you have to re-book, then claim by posting your original tickets, to be over-complicated and possibly designed to put people off bothering.

It's bad enough having to return tickets to TPE and print off a confirmation form, but at least it's pretty straightforward.

Bletchleyite · 18 Mar 2020

trainophile said:
I have never actually used it so this is speculative, but I find systems where you have to re-book, then claim by posting your original tickets, to be over-complicated and possibly designed to put people off bothering.

Rebooking is better because you can change TOC.

E-tickets are the solution to the problem you mention.

js517 · 18 Mar 2020

If the paper tickets haven't been collected there is no need to collect and post them.

trainophile · 18 Mar 2020

js517 said:
If the paper tickets haven't been collected there is no need to collect and post them.

Lesson for the future. I have always collected my tickets as soon as possible after buying them.

E759 · 18 Mar 2020

Advance tickets - what a mess.

Kite159 said:
From reading the Corona Virus page on Train Split, it sounds like they are charging £10 to change advance tickets (via making a new booking, and submitting the original booking for a refund less £10, no mention of the admin fee being waived.

https://www.trainsplit.com/coronavirus.aspx

Unless I'm reading that incorrectly

I did a TrainSplit re-book Sunday 15/3 for a trip today 18/3 to the Dean Forest Railway. I picked a new date as far forward as TrainSplit allows and am crossing my fingers that the Dean Forest will still be trading and open. The new tickets cost £9 more travelling at the same time (National Rail and Dean Forest timetables need to align).

I submitted a refund claim; the original tickets were TOD and I’d not collected them. The refund arrived 17/3 but I was charged a £10 Admin fee. So I’m down £19 on that one trip.

As for the other six trips I have Advances for, three were gala events all now cancelled (NNR, WSR & SVR) so re-booking is less appealing. Currently looking at an overall loss of £384.

Andyh82 · 18 Mar 2020

Regarding refunding Advance tickets, LNER are saying

Advance Tickets
Advance tickets are usually non-refundable or changeable. However, up to and including 30 April, if you have an Advance ticket and want to reschedule your travel, LNER is happy to credit your online account with an e-voucher to the value of your current ticket which you can use for future travel. You can do this easily and for free by emailing our Customer Services team at [email protected] quoting COVID19 in the subject field or by calling us on 03457 225 333

https://www.lner.co.uk/travel-information/coronavirus-travel-information/

Is this applicable to travel only up to 30 April, or any travel but you can only change it until 30 April.

My circumstances being that I've booked the tickets for early May but didn't get round to booking a Hotel.

Also some Advances are with LNER, some were booked through LNER but actually for travel on TPE

Also, they are saying they are crediting my online account, so presumably this means I can then use the amount to buy future tickets anywhere with any TOC as long as I use the LNER website?

Also any idea what the deadline is for 'future travel'?

30907 · 18 Mar 2020

Andyh82 said:
Advance tickets are usually non-refundable or changeable. However, up to and including 30 April, if you have an Advance ticket and want to reschedule your travel, LNER is happy to credit your online account....

30 April is the (current) deadline for applications. I would assume that an e-voucher is undated or 12 months like RTVs.

dvboy · 18 Mar 2020

The BBC News at 6 is reporting that timetable reductions should be expected from next week as TOCs face staff shortages and demand decreases.

Also reports the DfT and TOCs are talking about ticket refunds but focused on season ticket holders.

Wallsendmag · 18 Mar 2020

30907 said:
30 April is the (current) deadline for applications. I would assume that an e-voucher is undated or 12 months like RTVs.

12 Months validity

Wuffle · 18 Mar 2020

It appears TrainPal have fallen in to line

https://www.mytrainpal.com/web-pages/2020notice/index.html?time=1584512820000

alistairlees · 18 Mar 2020

30907 said:
30 April is the (current) deadline for applications. I would assume that an e-voucher is undated or 12 months like RTVs.

That’s not correct; your ticket has to be valid for travel between 17th March and 30th April. You could apply later (within 28 days of the last day of validity of your ticket, if it’s not Advance).

Kite159 · 18 Mar 2020

Wuffle said:
It appears TrainPal have fallen in to line

https://www.mytrainpal.com/web-pages/2020notice/index.html?time=1584512820000

Which just leaves Trainspilt as the only retailer still charging a £10 admin fee to change pre-purchased advance tickets

alex17595 · 18 Mar 2020

My grandad tried to change advance tickets bought on EMR for Tutbury and Hatton- Blackpool and was advised he would need to talk to Avanti.

Do I need to go after EMR then as they are the retailer?

sheff1 · 18 Mar 2020

yorkie said:
So if you have been charged an admin fee clearly a mistake has been made. If you send me a PM with your booking ref number I will raise this directly with a contact Raileasy.

Seems to be deliberate rather than a mistake.
https://www.trainsplit.com/coronavirus.aspx

Why are you charging an admin fee?
Unlike train operators and some retailers, we are a small private company without access to large investors who can bail us out.

TOC plans regarding advance tickets if destinations become no-go (Coronavirus)?

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