Statto
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West Yorkshire PTE had Alexander body Metrobuses which didn't last long either, don't think any were kept by Yorkshire Rider.
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Bus with Shortest working lives
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As I understand it these Metrobuses, along with a number of Olympians, were leased. Yorkshire Rider didn't take them on as it didn't want to saddle itself with huge leasing commitments. West Yorkshire PTE paid off the leases and sold the buses.
Then, Yorkshire Rider decided that it did want these buses after all and attempted to buy them, but were beaten to it by Kirby the dealers. The upshot of this was that Yorkshire Rider then had to buy buses which had originated on the other side of the Pennines (GM Standards) as replacements!
Statto
Established Member
Lol that's quite amusing.
Leyland Titan[B15] was a strange one too, they lasted over 20 years in London, the PTEs that brought them got rid of them by d-reg[don't know if they were leased], main issue was was the time it took to build them, GMPTE had ordered 190 of the types but only 15 were ever built & delivered, West Midlands had 5 built from an order of 80, other operators simply cancelled the order, Merseyside PTE had ordered some, a demonstrator[0029] went on loan for a short period, but cancelled as it was taking so long to build them, ironically Merseyside PTE successor Merseybus brought a batch of 250 Titans from London, most went into service still in London Red[they still the London division insignia they where from on ] but with Merseybus stickers added, until they got refurbished at Merseybus Edge Lane works
TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Lol that's quite amusing.
Leyland Titan[B15] was a strange one too, they lasted over 20 years in London, the PTEs that brought them got rid of them by d-reg[don't know if they were leased], main issue was was the time it took to build them, GMPTE had ordered 190 of the types but only 15 were ever built & delivered, West Midlands had 5 built from an order of 80, other operators simply cancelled the order, Merseyside PTE had ordered some, a demonstrator[0029] went on loan for a short period, but cancelled as it was taking so long to build them, ironically Merseyside PTE successor Merseybus brought a batch of 250 Titans from London, most went into service still in London Red[they still the London division insignia they where from on ] but with Merseybus stickers added, until they got refurbished at Merseybus Edge Lane works
IIRC, the GM ones weren't leased. The delays in supplying them were that London Transport took precedence, but also that PRV had labour problems and low productivity. That led to the closure of Park Royal in 1980 and a hiatus in production for about 8-9 months as it was switched to Workington, so prospective customers headed elsewhere.
Should also be noted that the Olympian also came onto the scene which was cheaper to buy and cheaper to run.
Bus Lightyear
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It may have already been mentioned but Strathclyde's Buses Leyland Olympian LO47 (J136 FYS) was new in August 1991 and destroyed in the Larkfield Depot fire in May 1992.
GGPTEs fleet of 40 MCW Metropolitan Scanias were new in 1975 and withdrawn around 1980 due to major corrosion to the body and chassis. I think most operators who had the misfortune of purchasing these vehicles struggled to get more than 5 years service out of them.
GGPTEs fleet of 40 MCW Metropolitan Scanias were new in 1975 and withdrawn around 1980 due to major corrosion to the body and chassis. I think most operators who had the misfortune of purchasing these vehicles struggled to get more than 5 years service out of them.
These was this one from 1983 which saw a W-reg Tyne & Wear PTE Atlantean written off affer being hit by a Metro train:
flic.kr
TWPTE Accident
This shot from the other side of the track shows the distance EJR120W was pushed along the track also seen in attendance is a Dennis fire appliance from the local brigade. A full report of the accident can be seen at: www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_BruntonLane1983.pdf
flic.kr
Tyne & Wear PTE managed to persevere a bit longer with its Metropolitans but by 1985 it, too, had conceded defeat and started to make plans for their replacement. A handful lasted into the Busways era and all bar one had gone from service by 1988. 499 was retained as it was numerically the last Metropolitan delivered to the PTE and was semi-preserved, remaining in the fleet until 1994. Its eventual demise was caused, not by corrosion, but by engine failure.
Back in post #47 I mentioned the Borders Buses Optare MetroCity which was destroyed by fire when just over seven months old. Here's a photo of its remains - all gone bar the front end.
flic.kr
YJ17 FWU
YJ17FWU is seen at Jonathan Lloyd Commercial Salvage Ltd, Hixon, Staffordshire on 12/10/2018.
flic.kr
Mikey C
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I think the wheel trims are salvagable!Back in post #47 I mentioned the Borders Buses Optare MetroCity which was destroyed by fire when just over seven months old. Here's a photo of its remains - all gone bar the front end.
YJ17 FWU
YJ17FWU is seen at Jonathan Lloyd Commercial Salvage Ltd, Hixon, Staffordshire on 12/10/2018.
Stagecoach Manchester Trident 18373 (MX55KPZ) only managed 14 months' service before vandals burnt it out.
flic.kr
Stagecoach Manchester 18373 MX55KPZ
Operator Name: Stagecoach Manchester. Fleet / Reg No: 18373 MX55 KPZ. Chassis: ADL Trident II. Body: ADL ALX400 H47/28F. Location: Hyde Road Depot, Ardwick, Manchester. Date: February 2007.
flic.kr
There were 4 BT7L Geminis operated by Travel London on then H50 between Hayes and West Drayton - I’m not 100% sure on dates but they were only introduced a year or so before Heathrow T5 opened, and the route was extended there with frequency increase and conversion to E200s - so I don’t think they saw their 2nd birthday....
Eyersey468
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East Yorkshire's first 2 batches of Optare Excels being new in 1996/7 were sold in 2002 in P/X for some MAN 18.220s. Also Volvo B7TL 675 only lasted 8 years, being written off in a head on collision with a 4x4 that lost control on a bend at over 80mph.
mainframe444
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Another example of shortest life with original operator must be the batch of Bristol VRs supplied to Trent in 1977, 830 to 837 (UTO 830 - 837S).
These arrived in September 1977, were licensed in October, and were then exchanged for 8 Leyland Nationals with Northern General (473 to 480) without being used in service.
This was due to Trent’s ongoing Market Analysis Plan which identified a need for more single decks rather than doubles.
These arrived in September 1977, were licensed in October, and were then exchanged for 8 Leyland Nationals with Northern General (473 to 480) without being used in service.
This was due to Trent’s ongoing Market Analysis Plan which identified a need for more single decks rather than doubles.
As a class of vehicles the shortest working lives must surely be the Guy Wulfrunian, the Foden-NC decker, the Seddon Pennine RU and probably the Daimler Roadliner. As sub-classes perhaps also Daimler Fleetline single deckers due to structural issues.
As regards a specific bus, ignoring mishaps, accidents and fires, if anybody has access to LT fleet records of 1975 then please look up Daimler Fleetline DM952. It would have been new to Cricklewood in the summer as part of the two-man operated batch for the 16. I think it broke down within a couple of weeks, possibly gearbox failure (that batch had seriously dodgy gearboxes) and I don't think it ever ran again.
As regards a specific bus, ignoring mishaps, accidents and fires, if anybody has access to LT fleet records of 1975 then please look up Daimler Fleetline DM952. It would have been new to Cricklewood in the summer as part of the two-man operated batch for the 16. I think it broke down within a couple of weeks, possibly gearbox failure (that batch had seriously dodgy gearboxes) and I don't think it ever ran again.
upasalmon
On Moderation
They Leyland Panther had a short life. Merseyside PTE withdrew half of the 110 ex Liverpool Panthers in 1975/76 after just 7 years. SELNEC got rid of all ex Manchester Panthers and Panther Cubs after 5-7 years . 20 of the Liverpool Panthers passed to Chesterfield Transport. The 22 ex Southport Panthers had fuller lives, but all had gone by 1981/82.
Another unlucky Liverpool single decker was Bristol RELL6G 2017, new in 1969 but written off less than a year later.
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Another unlucky Liverpool single decker was Bristol RELL6G 2017, new in 1969 but written off less than a year later.
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TheGrandWazoo
Veteran Member
Darlington Corporation enjoyed the delights of both Roadliners and Seddon RUs.
Despite the fact that Cummins had an engine plant in the town, such were the problems with the Roadliners that they cancelled a second batch and bought Gardner engined single deck Fleetlines. They manfully tried to win the battle but they eventually went after 10-12 years (which was good for a Roadliner).
However, the Seddon RU was something that they managed to get on ok with. They had 8 and I think 7 of them lasted 16 years service before being sold for further service!
I didn't appreciate how distinctive the Darlington fleet was at the time..... I mean, didn't everyone run Ward Dalesmans!!!
jp4712
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This is what the excellent Ian's Bus Stop has to say about DM952:
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
DM 952 GHV 952N
9/74 new to Aldenham: 2/2DM3/3: Leyland O.680
9/74 SE change store (Stonebridge Park)
W (Cricklewood)
6/78 TC transfer (Croydon)
8/78 TH transfer (Thornton Heath)
10/78 TH repaint
79-81 TH
3/82 TH withdrawn..
3/82 CA ..into store (Clapham)
4/82 change store (AEC Southall)
8/82 change store (Ensignbus)
1/83 sold to Ensign Bus (Purfleet)
3/86 Cityrama bus fleet: used for 200, blue, white band
2/87 numbered 52
1989 Cityrama
*/89 withdrawn
by 12/92 sold
Seddon RUs weren't a great bus but operators mostly got ten to twelve years out of them. In the same vein as Liverpool 2017, North Western 276 came to a fiery end in 1969 when less than a year old - there's a pic at http://bcv.robsly.com/accident.html#kja276f
Journeyman
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There were some leased Mark 2 Metrobuses in Harrow that only lasted about three years before moving on. I saw one show up years later on rail replacement work.
upasalmon
On Moderation
Crosville begrudgingly accepted 100 Seddon RUs and got rid of these mechanically challenged beasts at 10 years of age in 1980. Crosville did not want to be the NBCs guinea pig for a recently introduced Type- they wanted the trusty Bristol RE. The Gardner 6HLXB engines were transferred to Leyland Nationals by Crosville.
I stand corrected on DM952, I must have been dreaming it!
DM931 was perhaps the one I was thinking of, this lasted 8 months in service on the 16 at Cricklewood.
I liked the Seddon RUs but I understand they had a design fault in the driveline which made them prone to breaking in a way that couldn't be redesigned,
Never quite understood why the Leyland Panther was so unsuccesful. It had tried and trusted components and nothing too innovative. Some operators made them work and last, eg Preston, Chesterfield, but most got rid of them quite quickly, especially Panther Cubs.
Sadly the Roadliners were slightly before my time. I did travel on one when on loan to London Country but didn't appreciate the rarity or the sound effects these buses were supposed to have. I think their problem was a fundamental design fault with the engine which was designed for marine use, not constant stopping and starting.
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upasalmon
On Moderation
V6 and V8 diesel engined buses have always failed. Cummins wasted their efforts for two decades until they settled on straight six cylinder engines. They are too noisy and probably that's why they've vanished from use. Fire engines are the last vehicles I recall with Perkins V8 diesels.
October 2000: First Beeline 236 (X236 AMO) - Brand new Dart SLF with ALX200 body. Was destroyed when it got stuck and then struck by a cl455 at a level crossing near Egham, causing the leading car to derail. Before (outside the old Slough bus station): https://www.flickr.com/photos/michaelwadman/16625189489/
After: https://www.flickr.com/photos/41125279@N03/3902556605/
After: https://www.flickr.com/photos/41125279@N03/3902556605/
So how come virtually every American bus and coach since time began has had a V8 engine?
Nearly every American vehicle has a V8 engine, because freedom!
I wouldn't necessarily say they've been a failure. Our Dennis Lancets had the Perkins V8 and, while I agree they were noisy (nicely noisy, though!), they were decent enough buses. They were withdrawn because there were only six in a fleet that was still largely composed of Leyland Leopards and Tigers, but went on to lead lives with other operators.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
Scania V8 buses were popular in the Alps in the 70's as 6 cylinder engines of the time weren't powerful enough.
The MAN E300s in South Wales did not last long. They were 09 plates by 2012 some were replaced. The Stockton ones in 2014 ended up on loan in South Wales. The Man ones spent more time in the workshop than on the road. Some had to have Cummins engines.
LOL The Irony
On Moderation
The MAN buses from that period were why Stagecoach had a falling out with them. The same thing happened to the MAN powered Solo's; every time one failed, it was replaced with a Cummins unit. In fact, you'll find areas where older buses are still in front line service whilst MAN E300's from 2009 are in the training fleet despite only being 10-11 years old. And if my memory serves me correct, some have been scrapped.
randyrippley
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because they're 2-strokes with blowers? Different idea altogether
A lot of the MAN E300's have been scrapped (at least 25). Quite a few are in training fleets and lots of those in service have Cummins engines. The MAN engined ones are terribly unreliable, the buses here with Stagecoach Midlands have been out of service for over a year now, despite there being 04-reg Darts and Tridents still in service.
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